To drone or not to drone?

Bronco V-8

It didn't start with the spying, thats the excuse they are using now.

Was it the child labor claim that started it?

raqball

Was it the child labor claim that started it?

No, It was a drone landing on the WH lawn.
There were other incidents that fueled the fire, the above kicked it all off.

raqball

I believe the ban started gaining speed due to Chinese spy concerns, then for DJI, it pivoted to child labor violations, and now we are back to spy concerns. I get that but there are so many electronics made by Chinese companies like the routers you pointed out.

So let's say that China and spying with their Chinese made drones is a problem in the US and that they needed to be banned. Cool... Present the proof / evidence and I will back the ban.

Also, what about all the foreign made drones from other nations? Every single drone, accessory and battery made in any other country besides the US is now banned.

I'll use Skyrover and an example even though it might not be the best example since it's basically a DJI Mini 4 Pro. Skyrover is a Malaysian company and they are manufactured in Malaysia.

Yes it's pretty well known that Skyrover might be a DJI licensing deal or DJI operating under a different name in a different country but show the proof and I will back it as well. Assuming they can 1st show that DJI is an actual danger which they have not..

I bought another Skyrover X1 fly more combo a few days ago and will keep it as a backup in case I crash or lose my Mini 4 Pro. I also bought a bunch of propellers (the propellers wonk on the Mini 4 Pro and on the Skyrover) and a few extra batteries for both drones.

I get that China is a problem and I am all for protecting the US but this entire thing is just weird.. They have now banned every drone made outside of the US. What is the China spy concern for the drones made in other nations? Drones are made in several European nations, Malaysia, Israel, Japan, Turkey etc...

The US did not even give these companies a chance to defend themselves. They just issued a blanket ban with no hearings, no audit, no nothing.. Just because they said so...

I think that you might have missed my point. There is no proof that Chinese drones have been used for spying, yet. The issue is that the Chinese law makes it easy for Chinese security agencies and their contractors the ability to walk into DJI headquarters, and secretly tell them that they must provide ALL video to them that they have access to. Just because they haven't done it yet the law means that it can happen in the future at any time. And, frankly, we wouldn't know if they had already done it since it would be illegal for DJI to let folks know it had happened. In the end, the Chinese National Security Law creates a risk that stems from this legal compulsion. Critics point to architecture + legal environment + past app behaviors that could enable abuse if compelled or compromised. The U.S. response is largely preventive and geopolitical, not forensic. For those folks who already own a DJI drone, and care about this, there are some steps yo can take to harden your Drone (keep in mind that Chinese security services could easily force DJI to send out an update that re-enables all these thing, and do so silently so you won't know that they are back on again):


Enable Local Data Mode (LDM) — Most Important Step
Prevents the DJI app from transmitting flight data, telemetry, photos, and video to DJI servers.
How to enable

• Open DJI Fly or DJI GO 4
• Go to Profile / Settings → Privacy → Local Data Mode
• Toggle ON
• Acknowledge limitations (maps, cloud sync, live services)

Fly Fully Offline (Air-Gapped Ops)
Recommended setup

• Put phone/tablet/controller in Airplane Mode
• Manually re-enable Bluetooth only if required
• Leave Wi-Fi + Cellular OFF

Firmware Discipline (Controlled Updates)
Rules

• Update firmware only when necessary
• Never update in the field
• Never auto-update

Best method

• Use DJI Assistant 2 (desktop) on a trusted computer
• Disconnect internet immediately after update
• Re-enable Local Data Mode post-update

Firmware updates reset some privacy settings — always recheck LDM

Harden the Mobile Device Itself
Dedicated controller device

• Old phone or tablet used only for DJI
• No email, social media, or personal accounts

Device settings

• Disable:
  • Location history
  • Ad tracking
  • Background app refresh
  • Cloud backups
• Turn off:
  • Google/Apple analytics
  • Crash reporting (optional)

Why

• Reduces secondary data leakage unrelated to flight ops

What This Doesn’t Protect Against (Be Realistic)
This hardening:

• Blocks routine telemetry uploads
• Prevents cloud sync
• Eliminates live data paths
• Reduces legal/jurisdictional exposure

It does not:

• Make firmware open-source
• Override export-control policy
• Protect against a hypothetical coerced firmware update (why updates are controlled)

Personally, I think that the home router issue is MUCH more of a danger, AND has been shown to have been used by Chinese hackers whereas the DJI issue is completely theoretical. However, the drones are actively takable, mobile, and designed to collect intelligence information like imagery + location data. Thus providing, for example, targeting data which can be used against targets such as ports, US bases, etc. here in the US.

JoergH

I think that you might have missed my point. There is no proof that Chinese drones have been used for spying, yet. The issue is that the Chinese law makes it easy for Chinese security agencies and their contractors the ability to walk into DJI headquarters, and secretly tell them that they must provide ALL video to them that they have access to. Just because they haven't done it yet the law means that it can happen in the future at any time.

No, I understood your point but if that's truly the case then everything made in China by a Chinese company that has a computer chip, GPS, or that's cellular should be banned using this logic..

And that does not explain why every drone, part and accessory that's made outside of the US is now banned. There are plenty of drones that are produced outside of China that are now also banned..

The Chinese government cannot walk into a Malaysian companies HQ and demand compliance with Chinese law..

I'll just wrap my drone in tin foil (I would use a tin foil hat but that would probably fall off) and call it a day..... 😂

Bronco V-8

No, It was a drone landing on the WH lawn.

Ah, I must have missed that but I don't really watch the news much as it's just noting but negativity...

Sounds like a Secret Service issue / blunder to me but what do I know...

It's not actual spying but it's the ability to spy that's the problem.

Foxtrot Bravo

It's not actual spying but it's the ability to spy that's the problem.

Every country in the world has the ability to spy.. As @JoergH pointed out previously there are far greater threats from other Chinese, or foreign, made electronics and products..

In this case, China itself was not singled out with this since they banned every drone on the planet that's not US made by a US company.. I assume drones made by Martians or Jupiterians (is that a word?) are also included in the ban after they invade earth..

The government was required to do an audit, they said nah...... They had a meeting and decided an audit was not needed.. Wait, what?

*The meeting:

• Bob: China bad, DJI bad
• Cindy: Yup, yup
• Bob: Drones bad
• Cindy: Yup
• Bob: Let's ban them all
• Cindy: Okay
• Bob: Motion to adjourn, do I have a 2nd?
• Cindy: Seconded

*Tony was present for the meeting but didn't offer any input because he was busy eating his Subway sammich...

/The Meeting

How is it fair to bypass a required audit and just blanket ban all these these companies? Also, how is this type of government action acceptable and what's next that they'll decide to axe behind a closed door meeting?

raqball

No, I understood your point but if that's truly the case then everything made in China by a Chinese company that has a computer chip, GPS, or that's cellular should be banned using this logic..

And that does not explain why every drone, part and accessory that's made outside of the US is now banned. There are plenty of drones that are produced outside of China that are now also banned..

The Chinese government cannot walk into a Malaysian companies HQ and demand compliance with Chinese law..

I'll just wrap my drone in tin foil (I would use a tin foil hat but that would probably fall off) and call it a day..... 😂

Ah, sorry, DJI, the world’s largest manufacturer of consumer drones and other aerial imaging technology, is headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China. Its main corporate campus is known as DJI Sky City and is located in the Nanshan District of Shenzhen.

So, actually they can. It’s also the reason we don’t have ZTE and Huawei phones and other gear.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s ca pain in the a$$ that this has happened. We should have never allowed the Chinese to take over the entire drone market, etc.

JoergH

Ah, sorry, DJI, the world’s largest manufacturer of consumer drones and other aerial imaging technology, is headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, China. Its main corporate campus is known as DJI Sky City and is located in the Nanshan District of Shenzhen.

So, actually they can. It’s also the reason we don’t have ZTE and Huawei phones and other gear.

The US Government was required by law to do an audit under Section 1709 of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). They said nah even though DJI was basically begging them to do so.

The Chinese government would only be able to demand compliance with their laws if the Malaysian, or other foreign based company, wanted to sell their drones or products in China.

China could not demand compliance with their laws if a company based in Malaysia, France, Italy, or wherever wanted to sell drones or products in the USA..

If they wanted to ban DJI and Autel because they are Chinese companies that are bound by Chinese law then cool. Do the Audit and show the proof as to why. Shady closed door meetings are not the answer..

No audit required by law was done and in a closed door meeting they banned every drone on the planet not made in the USA.. This stinks to the high heavens..

On a side note I got the wife the DJI RC remote, the remote with the screen. For her mini 3 and it is a game changer. No more messing with the phone just fly it. I flew 3 miles of road being constructed in the middle of no where. My first time using this remote and it worked flawlessly.

Jakob1972

On a side note I got the wife the DJI RC remote, the remote with the screen. For her mini 3 and it is a game changer. No more messing with the phone just fly it. I flew 3 miles of road being constructed in the middle of no where. My first time using this remote and it worked flawlessly.

Yeah the DJI RC2 with the built in screen controller is much better but I also don't mind using my phone. I ran my previous X1 with my phone and it was fine.. I would prefer a DJI RC2 type controller for the Skyrover X1 but that's obviously never going to happen now..

I might buy a used, and older model iPad Mini and just use the mini with the Skyrover.. They sell adapters that allow you to use tablets.. I assume that's also going to make the controller much more bulky so that's a downside to consider..

I won't use the drone(s) much so I am not sure if the used iPad Mini would be worth the added cost..

This is a cool little adapter to use an iPad Mini..



iPad Mini Adapter - Amazon

I ordered one just in case I want to use an iPad Mini with my Skyrover X1... For $14, why not...

No one wanted ridiculous CAFE standards but we got it anyway.

Any one who is conscious could see this coming.Unless you fought against this don't complain.I spent years fighting this.

Bronco V-8

Any one who is conscious could see this coming.Unless you fought against this don't complain.I spent years fighting this.

I am conscious and I didn't see this coming nor did many of the drone 'experts' and content creators. I think most expected DJI and Autel to be banned but every drone on planet earth? Naw...

I will complain about it because it's BS. This thread is only 6 months old so I am obviously new to drones but I have learned a lot in those 6 months.. I've done a lot of research and I've asked a lot of questions here, on other forums, etc..

I did send my congress person an email a few months ago asking them to force the audit when it was rumored they were not going to do one and would just let the time pass.. Did they read it? Probably not...

I appreciate you fighting the fight, hopefully something happens down the line and this is adjusted but I doubt it...

I expect my government follow laws. The law said they must do an audit. They said naw and banned everyone based on closed door meetings.. That's not freedom, that's totalitarianism..

Do the audit and release the findings. If it all washes, then cool, I will back the ban(s)..

For Skyrover, I would understand.. A little investigative work (read: the audit) would have probably shown the X1 is a DJI Mini 4 Pro in disguise and that it's using the DJI backend. Ban Skyrover as well? Sure, conduct the audit and provide the evidence to back it up..

I am not pointing the finger at any political party as this ban started under a different administration and carried over to the current administration.

I am also not as anti-gubment as I might sound. I retired from a gubment job...

---------- In other news ----------

I am going to take the Skyrover X1 out later today to test it and make sure everything is working fine on it.. Nothing major, I'll drive out to a country dirt road and put it through it's paces since I won't really use it until my next camping and off-road trip at the start of Spring..

It's suppose to be in the 50's today with some slight wind gusts so I'll take advantage of the semi-nice weather..

Amazon has a 30-day return window on it so I want to make sure everything is a-ok with it...

raqball

The US Government was required by law to do an audit under Section 1709 of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). They said nah even though DJI was basically begging them to do so.

The Chinese government would only be able to demand compliance with their laws if the Malaysian, or other foreign based company, wanted to sell their drones or products in China.

China could not demand compliance with their laws if a company based in Malaysia, France, Italy, or wherever wanted to sell drones or products in the USA..

If they wanted to ban DJI and Autel because they are Chinese companies that are bound by Chinese law then cool. Do the Audit and show the proof as to why. Shady closed door meetings are not the answer..

No audit required by law was done and in a closed door meeting they banned every drone on the planet not made in the USA.. This stinks to the high heavens..

--------- In other news ---------

I bought another Skyrover X1 last week and it arrived yesterday. I now have my DJI Mini 4 Pro and the Skyrover X1. I should have kept the previous Skyrover X1 that I had but I never expected them to ban every drone on the planet..

I purchased the Fly More Bundle X1 this time and I also purchased extra batteries and propellers for both the DJI Mini 4 Pro and the Skyrover X1.. I now have 6 batteries for each drone and a crap ton of extra propellers..



Bite me US Gubment.... 😂 😜

I think for now, until I get more confident flying, I'll use the Skyrover X1 and I'll box the DJI Mini 4 Pro back up, keeping it as a backup. My reasoning is that the Skyrover X1 was half the price of the DJI Mini 4 Pro so if I crash it or lose it, I am out far less moola...

Also, FWIW, the Skyrover X1 is still on sale @ Amazon.. The Fly More Bundle is only $629 smack-a-roos.. Get em while you can as once the US stock is sold out, it's a goner...

Skyrover X1 Fly More Bundle - Amazon

I get the frustration around the lack of transparency — I really do. I actually agree with you that open audits are better than closed-door decisions, and the rollout and messaging around this have been sloppy at best.

Where we keep diverging, though, is on two key points.

First, DJI is not a Malaysian company. I know you’ve repeated that claim, but I’ve already shown documentation that DJI is headquartered and controlled in China. Manufacturing locations or foreign subsidiaries don’t change jurisdiction. What matters is where the parent company is incorporated and legally bound — and DJI is a Chinese company under Chinese law.

Here’s a straightforward, primary-source confirmation:

• DJI official website – Company information:
  https://www.dji.com/about
  “DJI was founded in Shenzhen, China and is privately held.”

Additional authoritative references:

• U.S. Department of Defense – Chinese Military Companies List (FY2022–FY2024)
  DJI Technology Co., Ltd. is listed as a Chinese company subject to PRC jurisdiction.
• U.S. Department of Commerce Entity List
  DJI Technology Co., Ltd. (Shenzhen) is explicitly identified as a People’s Republic of China entity.

None of these describe DJI as Malaysian.

Second, the concern isn’t about where DJI sells products. China doesn’t need DJI to sell drones in China to assert authority over them. Under China’s National Intelligence Law of 2017, Chinese companies are legally required to cooperate with state intelligence and security services and are prohibited from disclosing that cooperation. That obligation follows the company, not the market it sells into (Articles 7 and 14).

This is fundamentally different from how this works in the U.S. or EU, where companies can challenge government demands in court and there is judicial oversight. That legal asymmetry — not proven spying — is the core issue.

On the audit question: yes, Section 1709 of the FY2020 NDAA envisioned an evaluation, and DJI pushed hard for one. But the government’s position (right or wrong) is that a point-in-time audit of firmware or source code doesn’t eliminate ongoing legal-compulsion risk. A clean audit today doesn’t prevent compelled changes tomorrow, and there’s no enforcement mechanism once devices are deployed at scale.

That’s also why this isn’t about “banning every drone not made in the USA.” It’s about foreign adversary jurisdiction, not country of manufacture. European and Japanese vendors aren’t affected the same way because they aren’t subject to comparable intelligence-access laws.

It’s completely fair to criticize how this was handled and to want more transparency. But that doesn’t mean the underlying legal-risk argument is fabricated or baseless.

JoergH

First, DJI is not a Malaysian company. I know you’ve repeated that claim, but I’ve already shown documentation that DJI is headquartered and controlled in China. Manufacturing locations or foreign subsidiaries don’t change jurisdiction. What matters is where the parent company is incorporated and legally bound — and DJI is a Chinese company under Chinese law.

I've never said anything of the sort...

I've said Skyrover is a Malaysian company. Skyrover, a Malaysian based company, manufacture their Skyrover drones, accessories and batteries in Malaysia not in China... They are also banned..

While It's believed that Skyrover is a DJI clone using DJI backend, If the US wants to ban them then do the required by law audit and show the proof...

That’s also why this isn’t about “banning every drone not made in the USA.” It’s about foreign adversary jurisdiction, not country of manufacture. European and Japanese vendors aren’t affected the same way because they aren’t subject to comparable intelligence-access laws..

This is not true. Drones, accessories, components, and batteries made in Japan or Europe are also now banned.

The absolute fact is that they have 100% banned every drone, accessory, component, and battery that is not made in the US by a US company..

Even if a drone was made in the US, by a US company and it used a Japanese motor, it would be banned under the current ruling... Why? Because foreign made motors for drones were also banned along with all drone parts, all drone components and all drone batteries.

The FCC notice can be read here:

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-25-1086A1.pdf

raqball

I am conscious and I didn't see this coming nor did many of the drone 'experts' and content creators. I think most expected DJI and Autel to be banned but every drone on planet earth? Naw...

I will complain about it because it's BS. This thread is only 6 months old so I am obviously new to drones but I have learned a lot in those 6 months.. I've done a lot of research and I've asked a lot of questions here, on other forums, etc..

I did send my congress person an email a few months ago asking them to force the audit when it was rumored they were not going to do one and would just let the time pass.. Did they read it? Probably not...

I appreciate you fighting the fight, hopefully something happens down the line and this is adjusted but I doubt it...

I expect my government follow laws. The law said they must do an audit. They said naw and banned everyone based on closed door meetings.. That's not freedom, that's totalitarianism..

Do the audit and release the findings. If it all washes, then cool, I will back the ban(s)..

For Skyrover, I would understand.. A little investigative work (read: the audit) would have probably shown the X1 is a DJI Mini 4 Pro in disguise and that it's using the DJI backend. Ban Skyrover as well? Sure, conduct the audit and provide the evidence to back it up..

I am not pointing the finger at any political party as this ban started under a different administration and carried over to the current administration.

I am also not as anti-gubment as I might sound. I retired from a gubment job...

---------- In other news ----------

I am going to take the Skyrover X1 out later today to test it and make sure everything is working fine on it.. Nothing major, I'll drive out to a country dirt road and put it through it's paces since I won't really use it until my next camping and off-road trip at the start of Spring..

It's suppose to be in the 50's today with some slight wind gusts so I'll take advantage of the semi-nice weather..

Amazon has a 30-day return window on it so I want to make sure everything is a-ok with it...

Nothing is going to happen. AMA members fought this only to have the AMA sell out.They are the only organization big enough to get the feds to listen. what ever happens now is what its going to be, the battle is over.
Any flier who has been around for the last 10 years knew this was going to happen, you haven't been in it that long, so you are excused.But the DJI ban was announced last year.
The action of inconsiderate kids lead to the regulations making flying impossible, I quit flying so I really don't care anymore.

the content creators are to blame for a lot of this, they are the worst offenders, they don't care about regulations.

Bronco V-8

the content creators are to blame for a lot of this, they are the worst offenders, they don't care about regulations.

I'd have to agree.. I've seen a lot of YT videos where they are blatantly disregarding even the most basic rules.. The #1 violation I see all the time is the visual line of sight rule..

What ticks me off the most though is the US government not following the law. They were required to do an audit and they said nah, we good...

Let me not follow the law and I'll need bail money..

Enjoy it while you can.

Bronco V-8

Enjoy it while you can.

Yeah, I assume their next step will be to ground them all.... I hope not but based on what they just did, I assume that is coming next..

raqball

I've never said anything of the sort...

I've said Skyrover is a Malaysian company. Skyrover, a Malaysian based company, manufacture their Skyrover drones, accessories and batteries in Malaysia not in China... They are also banned..

While It's believed that Skyrover is a DJI clone using DJI backend, If the US wants to ban them then do the required by law audit and show the proof...


This is not true. Drones, accessories, components, and batteries made in Japan or Europe are also now banned.

The absolute fact is that they have 100% banned every drone, accessory, component, and battery that is not made in the US by a US company..

Even if a drone was made in the US, by a US company and it used a Japanese motor, it would be banned under the current ruling... Why? Because foreign made motors for drones were also banned along with all drone parts, all drone components and all drone batteries.

The FCC notice can be read here:

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-25-1086A1.pdf

I think there are a couple of things getting conflated here.l and I think that’s partly my fault.

First, the FCC action isn’t limited to “Chinese companies.” It applies to foreign-produced UAS and foreign-produced UAS critical components, regardless of whether the country is China, Malaysia, Japan, or Europe. So a SkyRover drone can fall under the restriction without the government claiming it’s Chinese.

Second, saying SkyRover “manufactures in Malaysia” isn’t the same as proving the entire supply chain is non-Chinese. Motors, radios, cameras, batteries/BMS, and firmware are exactly the components the FCC defines as “critical,” and there’s no public audit showing their origin.

Third, the idea that SkyRover is a DJI clone using DJI backend may be believed in the community, but belief isn’t evidence. If the U.S. government wants to rely on that claim, the law already provides a mechanism to do the audit and publish the findings. That hasn’t happened.

I’m fine with bans based on demonstrated risk like with DJI — but asserting manufacturing origin or backend ties without documentation just replaces one assumption with another.

In other words, I think we are in violent agreement that this is all being badly mishandled.