To drone or not to drone?

Bronco V-8

Return shipping???? just let it fly back...😂

What ever happened to Amazon delivering by drone? it would be funny if your drone was delivered by drone.😜

That's effing hysterical. Good one! 😝

Yesterday I found out that apparently even if a drone is under 250 grams, and even if it is only used for recreational purposes, that everyone who wants to fly a drone must take and pass the FAA TRUST test. This even applies to the $49 Amazon drones..

The test is online, free and it took me all of 10 minutes to take it and pass it.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers/knowledge_test_updates#TAs

Scroll down on the page for the FAA list of approved test administrators. It's online, it's free and like I said, it takes a whopping 10 minutes. After passing, you are emailed a PDF file with your name and a unique ID token that says you passed..

You need to print that PDF and always have it with you when flying the drone. I am just going to toss it in a case that will be used to transport and store the drone.

Chances of getting busted if you don't take and pass the TRUST test? Probably minimal but with the amount of Karens out there who might call the police or rangers on you for flying it, it's best to just do it since it's free and only takes a few minutes..

Another nugget I learned.. There are larger batteries for these drones but they will put you over the 250 gram limit. If you are a recreational only user and your drone is over 250 grams then it needs to be registered with the FAA.. Registration is only $5 for 3 years. A part 107 test and certification is not required for this as long as it's for recreational use only but registration with the FAA is required.

https://faadronezone-access.faa.gov/#/

Anyways, thought I'd share as I had not seen this TRUST test, or the recreational only but over 250 grams, mentioned before..

Is my research correct?

• Recreational use with a drone under 250 grams = TRUST Test
• Recreational use with a drone over 250 grams = TRUST Test + Registration + Registration # on drone
• Any commercial use, regardless of drone weight = Part 107 Certification + Registration + Registration # on drone

If you are using a drone that's over 250 grams, or any drone regardless of weight that's for commercial use, then this place offers free stickers for your drone.

https://pilotinstitute.com/free/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=0251

You could use a label maker or a sharpie to write it on the drone but these look professional, cleaner and are free, free and more free..

I'll register mine with the FAA, because it's only $5 and that will allow me to use a larger battery for it later on if I decide to add one.

Here is the video where I learned all this and it's also the place that does the free sticker, if you need or want one..

I would get a 107 if you plan on monitizing YT vids shot with the drone.

Foxtrot Bravo

I would get a 107 if you plan on monitizing YT vids shot with the drone.

I am not and have no interest in the part 107 test and certification. For me, and my use, it would be a complete waste of time, effort and cash...

My use, as previously stated, will be for scouting trails ahead and looking for cool dispersed camping sites.

That's good info for anyone interested in monetizing their footage though.. 👍

My understanding is that making any moola whatsoever off the footage would be classified as commercial use and thus require the part 107 certification.. I am a n00b and am still learning but I do always try to follow the law and abide by any rules and regulations..

raqball

I am not and have no interest in the part 107 test and certification. For me, and my use, it would be a complete waste of time, effort and cash...

My use, as previously stated, will be for scouting trails ahead and looking for cool dispersed camping sites.

That's good info for anyone interested in monetizing their footage though.. 👍

My understanding is that making any moola whatsoever off the footage would be classified as commercial use and thus require the part 107 certification.. I am a n00b and am still learning but I do always try to follow the law and abide by any rules and regulations..

I like the scouting idea, that can save a lot of aggravation.

Foxtrot Bravo

I like the scouting idea, that can save a lot of aggravation.

I go out solo 95% of the time and have found myself in a few sticky situations over the years where the trail became to narrow to turn around, and / or to rocky to backup etc..

*sad story of despair

Several months ago I foolishly put myself in a pucker factor x100 type of trail where I had just crossed a decently rocky section of a trail that had been getting more and more narrow as I progressed down it.

Shortly after this rocky area was a very steep drop off shelf that had a several hundred foot drop off on one side and a shear flat rock wall on the other side.. My Bronco barely fit, width wise on this section.

There was a small section here that was seriously eroded on the shelf side and as I traversed it, my rear tire started to slip off the eroded edge. Luckily I made it but the trail was so narrow that attempting a 14,000 point turn a round was impossible. Backing up was a no-go due to the previously mentioned rocky conditions.

/*sad story of despair

There have been other instances where something like a drone could have saved me from these types of situations. In the above sad story of despair, about a mile back, and before the rocky area, there was an area large enough to have safely turned around. If I had a drone then I could have launched it when I saw the trail conditions getting worse and more narrow.. I would have seen the mess ahead and I could have just turned around there..

That's my thought process behind it.. Sure you can walk a trail and for short distances that'd be fine, but I'd like the ability to scout out even further. A mile out and a mile back on foot would probably take a least 30 minutes. A drone can cover that in a fraction of the time..

Plus, if I see something that might look like a cool dispersed camp site on the map, I can launch the drone and check it out..

A drone, like the DJI Mini 4 Pro, might be overkill for my use but I figure why not use the technology if it's available and affordable..

raqball

My understanding is that making any moola whatsoever off the footage would be classified as commercial use and thus require the part 107 certification.. I am a n00b and am still learning but I do always try to follow the law and abide by any rules and regulations..

It's a little more nuanced than that. Money doesn't have exchange hands in order to make something a requirement for part 107.

The rule is: "If a drone is flown for any purpose other than recreation, even for a non-profit organization, it is considered a non-recreational flight and falls under Part 107 regulations." You don't have to explicitly take money in exchange for flights (although that makes an easy case for the FAA).

For example, I know you enjoy mapping new trails for OnX Offroad. If you bring your drone with you to scout new locations for Onx Offroad, that is no longer considered personal recreation, since the intention was for the furtherance of a business, making it commercial in nature. (Ninja Edit to use the correct language)

Getting 107 certified helps protect you from another layer of fines or jail time. Accidents happen, and when they happen with drones and cause bodily injury or more than $500 in property damage the FAA will get involved. You'll get an added charge if they determine your flight was for any purpose other than recreation.

Part of the 107 education is learning how to use digital sectional charts (a.k.a flight maps) correctly so you know where its safe to fly and where its not.

TechnicalDisaster

For example, I know you enjoy mapping new trails for OnX Offroad. If you bring your drone with you to scout new locations for Onx Offroad, that is no longer considered personal recreation, since the intention was for the furtherance of a business, making it commercial in nature. (Ninja Edit to use the correct language)

Getting 107 certified helps protect you from another layer of fines or jail time. Accidents happen, and when they happen with drones and cause bodily injury or more than $500 in property damage the FAA will get involved. You'll get an added charge if they determine your flight was for any purpose other than recreation.

Interesting, thanks for the info....

I would not be using the footage, or the drone, specifically for onX. I'd be using it to see if I can safely proceed down a trail.. onX would get zero benefit from my drone use. I suppose an argument could be made that it's use allowed me to see that I could safely proceed down the trail but that would be some very weak sauce in my book..

FWIW, I'd also use the drone on existing trails that have already been mapped for onX. For me, it's a safety issue and not a mapping issue. I guess I should ask onX admin to clarify this for me.

If the FAA want's to come haul me off for being safe, then I guess I'll be spending some time in the clank... Like I said, I try to follow the law and all rules and regulations and I think thus far that I have and will.

• Under 250 grams? ✅
• Took and passed the TRUST? ✅

As far as bodily injury or damage goes, I am solo most of the time and have no plans whatsoever to fly it where others may be. The only damage I foresee myself doing is crashing the thing into a tree or having it sink in a river.. 😂

I have zero interest in spending the time, effort and money to get the part 107. That's the main reason I was only looking at sub 250 gram drones. If I needed a part 107, I would not be getting one and if I find out I need one now, it's getting returned or I'll bail out of the onX Trail Guide system..

I posted the question to onX, I guess I'll see what their response is.

Edit to add: Getting conflicting information from onX as well.

I do get benefits from mapping trails for onX. I get a free subscription and I get free swag if I meet the number of submitted trails that month to get the swag...

BUT a twist... I actually get nothing for doing a specific trail. I get a year of premium for free after my 1st trail of the year but that benefit stays even if I do not map another trail for the rest of the year.. For the free monthly swag, If I only do 3 trails that month but the requirement for the fee swag is 4 trails, then again ---> I gain nothing..

But, it appears that @TechnicalDisaster is correct..

Edit: After reading the FAA's response and the response from other part 107 licensed pilots it appears as though he was not correct.

I get it, all the irresponsible people that came before me are the reasons for these rules but it's still dumb!

Now I need to decide what I want to do...

I guess my final question is why even bother getting a sub 250 gram drone if it's basically useless and you'll still need the part 107 license to do anything other than look at it on the ground?

raqball

It appears that @TechnicalDisaster is 100% correct.. Even if I do not share any of the drone footage or photos with onX, I am still getting a benefit because the drone allowed me to see that I could safely proceed down the trail...

I spent a couple of years writing operations manuals for a part 135 private jet company. In this case, I can kind of see that the FAA might interpret this as using the drone as part of a safety management system (SMS) that the drone is not designed or certified to do. If you rely on your drone to keep you safe, than the FAA would feel the need to regulate those drones even more, not less.

TechnicalDisaster

I spent a couple of years writing operations manuals for a part 135 private jet company. In this case, I can kind of see that the FAA might interpret this as using the drone as part of a safety management system (SMS) that the drone is not designed or certified to do. If you rely on your drone to keep you safe, than the FAA would feel the need to regulate those drones even more, not less.

I do not need the drone to keep me safe, I just need it to show me trail conditions and then I decide if it's safe for me and my vehicle to travel down.. The FAA might think that's rocket science, but I'd call it common sense..

Meh, I am not wasting time and money on a 107 (read: gubment money grab) so I guess if I am unsure about a trail, and I am recording the track for onX, then I'll just end the track recording before I send the drone up. At that point, I'll be using it for recreation purposes..

Well, maybe.. Who knows. Sounds like unless someone takes the 107 and adds a remote ID module to their sub 250 gram drone then their destiny is to spend some time in the FAA pokie.. 😅

Most of these sub 250 gram drones DO NOT have the ability to broadcast a remote ID. So a DJI Mini 4 Pro would need to have a remote ID module purchased for it, and added to it, so that it can broadcast a remote ID..

What exactly is the point of a sub 250 gram drone other than for it to look pretty while sitting on the ground?

raqball

I do not need the drone to keep me safe, I just need it to show me trail conditions and then I decide if it's safe for me and my vehicle to travel down.. The FAA might think that's rocket science, but I'd call it common sense..

Meh, I am not wasting time and money on a 107 (read: gubment money grab) so I guess if I am unsure about a trail, and I am recording the track for onX, then I'll just end the track recording before I send the drone up. At that point, I'll be using it for recreation purposes..

Well, maybe.. Who knows. Sounds like unless someone takes the 107, adds a remote ID module to their sub 250 gram drone then their destiny is to spend some time in the FAA pokie..

Most of these sub 250 gram drones DO NOT have the ability to broadcast a remote ID. So a DJI Mini 4 Pro would need to have a remote ID module purchased for it, and added to it, so that it can broadcast a remote ID..

What exactly is the point of a sub 250 gram drone other than for it to look pretty while sitting on the ground?

Sub 250g would do less damage to aircraft than a 25 pound aircraft.A committee using a variety of engineering parameters came up with it. Most likely a bunch standing in a bar throwing darts at a dart board...
However a 250-gram projectile traveling at 150 mph has a kinetic energy of approximately 562.9 Joules
A 2-kilogram mass (about the weight of a small bowling ball) moving at 1 meter per second has a kinetic energy of 1 Joule.


I would say if you don't publish the actual footage taken by the drone you are safe.

I'm not doing a 107 either

Bronco V-8

I'm not doing a 107 either

Yeah, I am not about to study the laws of physics, how to become an air traffic controller, the astrophysics of a space shuttle nor the ins and out of being a 747 Jumbo Jet pilot just so I can fly a 249 gram drone out in the middle of nowhere, with no one else in sight, for personal use.

If I am recording a GPS track for onX mapping and I feel like I need to launch the drone then I'll just cancel the track. There, I am no longer acting on the behalf of a 'company'... 🤷

If I end up in the FAA slammer, please start a go fund me for my commissary privileges.. Hey, even a harden drone criminal like myself would need some candy every now and then... 😂

In other, I'm not headed to FAA prison, drone news: This arrived today..

• 249 grams
• No broadcast of remote ID

Which makes it an FAA approved paperweight.. 💩



I am still totally confused by this since they refunded me in full a few days ago..

Sent 'em a message asking for a return shipping label. I didn't think it was coming after getting refunded and assumed it had been recalled so I found a DJI Mini 4 Pro and bought it..

Apparently, I went from having no drones a few days ago to now having a drone re-sale shop.. 😂

raqball

Yesterday I found out that apparently even if a drone is under 250 grams, and even if it is only used for recreational purposes, that everyone who wants to fly a drone must take and pass the FAA TRUST test. This even applies to the $49 Amazon drones..

The test is online, free and it took me all of 10 minutes to take it and pass it.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers/knowledge_test_updates#TAs

Scroll down on the page for the FAA list of approved test administrators. It's online, it's free and like I said, it takes a whopping 10 minutes. After passing, you are emailed a PDF file with your name and a unique ID token that says you passed..

You need to print that PDF and always have it with you when flying the drone. I am just going to toss it in a case that will be used to transport and store the drone.

Chances of getting busted if you don't take and pass the TRUST test? Probably minimal but with the amount of Karens out there who might call the police or rangers on you for flying it, it's best to just do it since it's free and only takes a few minutes..

Another nugget I learned.. There are larger batteries for these drones but they will put you over the 250 gram limit. If you are a recreational only user and your drone is over 250 grams then it needs to be registered with the FAA.. Registration is only $5 for 3 years. A part 107 test and certification is not required for this as long as it's for recreational use only but registration with the FAA is required.

https://faadronezone-access.faa.gov/#/

Anyways, thought I'd share as I had not seen this TRUST test, or the recreational only but over 250 grams, mentioned before..

Is my research correct?

• Recreational use with a drone under 250 grams = TRUST Test
• Recreational use with a drone over 250 grams = TRUST Test + Registration + Registration # on drone
• Any commercial use, regardless of drone weight = Part 107 Certification + Registration + Registration # on drone

If you are using a drone that's over 250 grams, or any drone regardless of weight that's for commercial use, then this place offers free stickers for your drone.

https://pilotinstitute.com/free/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=0251

You could use a label maker or a sharpie to write it on the drone but these look professional, cleaner and are free, free and more free..

I'll register mine with the FAA, because it's only $5 and that will allow me to use a larger battery for it later on if I decide to add one.

Here is the video where I learned all this and it's also the place that does the free sticker, if you need or want one..

Your learning all the right stuff. Note that the small battery will show grams

Lots O Fords

Your learning all the right stuff. Note that the small battery will show grams

It appears that I can't run a larger battery either unless I also add a remote ID module to the drone. Since these under 250 gram drones do not have the ability to broadcast a remote ID, you need to add a module on the drone that will do so.. The lack of remote ID broadcast also prevents you from registering it with the FAA..

Edit to add: I just found out that the DJI Mini 4 Pro does have internal remote ID BUT that it is only activated when the larger battery is used and it recognizes that it's over the 250 gram limit.. Okay, cool.. So now instead of buying a remote ID module for it, you'd need to buy a larger battery if it needs to be registered with the FAA as part of 107 or if it's used for 'commercial' use. You know, commercial use --> like checking a remote forest trail for the conditions ahead. Yeah, that kind of 'commercial' use.. LOL

Not being able to use a larger battery is not a big deal to me. My use of the drone will be limited and it won't be in the air for any lengthy amount of time.

I am getting a wide variety of responses to the same question I posed with the onX trail guide community re: using the drone to check a trail while mapping..

My plan, to comply with the law and rules and regs is going to be that --> IF I am recording a track for onX and I need to launch the drone then I will end the track and delete it before launching the drone.

Could I still end up with a FAA criminal booking mugshot doing that? I dunno, sounds like everything is so confusing and vague that they can always find a violation if they want. I am sure there is probably something like part 107(s)(14,962.972.9) subsection 986.44(z)(477)(ii) that'll say something like you can not fly a drone while chewing bubblegum.. 😂

All I ask is for some money to be put on my prisoner books for commissary privilege use..



Apologies for dragging this thread out but I always try my best to learn about, and comply, with the law and with any and all rules and regulations.

This FAA drone stuff is a hot mess.. I've received so many different answers and options though Google searches, onX, drone forums, etc that's it's almost impossible to know if you are in compliance or not.. Flying a sub 250 gram drone while chewing bubblegum on a Tuesday and while wearing a white t-shirt? You might end up in the FAA slammer! 😂

raqball

It appears that I can't run a larger battery either unless I also add a remote ID module to the drone. Since these under 250 gram drones do not have the ability to broadcast a remote ID, you need to add a module on the drone that will do so.. The lack of remote ID broadcast also prevents you from registering it with the FAA..

Edit to add: I just found out that the DJI Mini 4 Pro does have internal remote ID BUT that it is only activated when the larger battery is used and it recognizes that it's over the 250 gram limit.. Okay, cool.. So now instead of buying a remote ID module for it, you'd need to buy a larger battery if it needs to be registered with the FAA as part of 107 or if it's used for 'commercial' use. You know, commercial use --> like checking a remote forest trail for the conditions ahead. Yeah, that kind of 'commercial' use.. LOL

Not being able to use a larger battery is not a big deal to me. My use of the drone will be limited and it won't be in the air for any lengthy amount of time.

I am getting a wide variety of responses to the same question I posed with the onX trail guide community re: using the drone to check a trail while mapping..

My plan, to comply with the law and rules and regs is going to be that --> IF I am recording a track for onX and I need to launch the drone then I will end the track and delete it before launching the drone.

Could I still end up with a FAA criminal booking mugshot doing that? I dunno, sounds like everything is so confusing and vague that they can always find a violation if they want. I am sure there is probably something like part 107(s)(14,962.972.9) subsection 986.44(z)(477)(ii) that'll say something like you can not fly a drone while chewing bubblegum.. 😂

All I ask is for some money to be on my prisoner books for commissary privilege use..



Apologies for dragging this thread out but I always try my best to learn about, and comply, with the law and with any and all rules and regulations.

This FAA drone stuff is a hot mess.. I've received so many different answers and options though Google searches, onX, drone forums, etc that's it's almost impossible to know if you are in compliance or not.. Flying a sub 250 gram drone while chewing bubblegum on a Tuesday and while wearing a white t-shirt? You might end up in the FAA slammer!

Don't apologize for getting into the weeds on all of this. I've learned a lot in this thread. I've always thought about buying drone and then always wonder exactly how much I would use it. Needless to say it's still on my list and probably will stay on my list for a few more years. 😁

Deano Bronc

Don't apologize for getting into the weeds on all of this. I've learned a lot in this thread. I've always thought about buying drone and then always wonder exactly how much I would use it. Needless to say it's still on my list and probably will stay on my list for a few more years. 😁

Realistically, I am sure I'd never have an issue even if I were to fly a drone to scout a trail ahead while recording that trail for onX but, like I've said many times, I try to understand follow the law.

I have no plans to drag race a 747 at an airport, I'm not interested in hovering over my neighbors backyard while she is out there sunbathing in a bikini (I can just peek through the curtains to do that 😲 😂), and I am 100% confident that I'll never make a single penny off of scouting a trail in the middle of nowhere when out on a remote forest trail...

I do realize that a lot of these rules came to be because of irresponsible people. The same can be said for trails getting closed etc.. So I blame them, mostly.. But the government has a special knack for making things ridiculously difficult to understand and follow. Many times these rules lack even the most basic common sense ..

Deano Bronc

Don't apologize for getting into the weeds on all of this. I've learned a lot in this thread. I've always thought about buying drone and then always wonder exactly how much I would use it. Needless to say it's still on my list and probably will stay on my list for a few more years. 😁

@raqball has littered this thread with hyberbole and stubborn misinformation - be careful of what you think you gleaned from his rants. The drone hobby wouldn't exist if it was half as difficult as he is making out.

If someone is interested in the hobby - please seek advice elsewhere. Let this thread be an example of what happens when you stubbornly refuse to use resources that are designed to help you. Find a drone enthusiast group and work from there. A part 107 study guide can be found for $20-30 on amazon. It is not expensive to pick up a copy and learn a fact or two. Even if you don't apply for your license, you will at least know how to operate your drone safely and legally.

Peace out.

I did a lot of research too. My first drone was bought so I could use when I made a training video. The DJI phantom is a huge drone.

I'm sure with all your research you have also added the "air aware" app.
For those who don't know it let's you know if you are in an area that you can fly. It will tell you if you can or can't.

I follow the rules too. At least close enough I can see em.. LoL

If you're flying in approved air space, under weight and following the rules of the test you took I would hope your good, because that's how I fly mostly. I did register with FAA because of batteries.

I would like to think that those who get nailed are doing stupid stuff like posting video of flying over a crowd or "look at this heard of buffalo I shot in Yellowstone"

TechnicalDisaster

@raqball has littered this thread with hyberbole and stubborn misinformation - be careful of what you think you gleaned from his rants. The drone hobby wouldn't exist if it was half as difficult as he is making out.

If someone is interested in the hobby - please seek advice elsewhere. Let this thread be an example of what happens when you stubbornly refuse to use resources that are designed to help you. Find a drone enthusiast group and work from there. A part 107 study guide can be found for $20-30 on amazon. It is not expensive to pick up a copy and learn a fact or two. Even if you don't apply for your license, you will at least know how to operate your drone safely and legally.

Peace out.

A lot of my commentary has been humor, and I think most people understood that..

You are more than welcome to quote what 'hyberbole and stubborn misinformation' I've posted that was not obvious humor..

I can't link you to the onX discussion because it's a private forum. Just know that a some of the certified 107 pilots there disagree with your assessment about using a drone in the manner that I originally asked about = scouting a trail while recording it for onX.

I am not opposed to buying a $30 guide on Amazon but something tells me that it STILL will not answer my unique question about checking trail conditions ahead while recording the trail for onX..

I am trying to follow and abide by the laws, rules and regulations for recreational use. The TRUST test is there for a reason. The recommendation that I buy a study guide, take the 107 test and join a drone club is overboard in my opinion as even the FAA does not recommend this for recreational users.

Additionally, there are a lot of onX Trail Guides who use drones and are part 107 certified. I am getting a lot of conflicting information from them. I assume posing the same question to a group of drone club members would give similar results.

I've yet to read a consensus among the 107 certified peeps who have answered my question about this. The answers are all over the place..

I do apologize if anyone actually thought they'd be arrested for flying a drone while chewing bubblegum.. 😂 👮