Priced out of the market?

Speed Devil

Planet is going through Carbon Starvation as we speak.

How did everyone forget elementary school science where plants need CO2 for their survival?

The idea is if carbon levels get too high we can use carbon capture to adjust it instead of forcing people into electric cars they can't afford.

But the carbon crisis is mostly manufactured hysteria.

Bronco V-8

The idea is if carbon levels get too high we can use carbon capture to adjust it instead of forcing people into electric cars they can't afford.

But the carbon crisis is mostly manufactured hysteria.

Even as a kid in hs (03-07), knew it was a crock of shit

How do people still believe in that bullshit?

YOLO

No dispute. But sales are indeed up, contrary to the original claim. You implied that EVEN with HUGE discounts Ford couldn't get rid of these Mach-E's. And yet sales tripled. I don't see how I can explain myself any more clearly.

You're confusing units with sales. They're literally losing money on each one they move so sales are negative.

Lots O Fords

I'm sure price and availability playing a big part.
I know someone who wanted a bronco so bad and settled for a jeep because of price.
My dealer in town sells both.
Has 2 new broncos and about 15 jeeps.
If more of something is on the lot the average customer sees more options and prices.

And let's face it, jeep has been in it non stop since 1941.
It's like Camaro or charger coming and going while the mustang has always been there.

Jeep isn't truly JEEP though. In fact true Jeep (GP) DNA is Ford.

OrangecrushBronco

You're confusing units with sales. They're literally losing money on each one they move so sales are negative.

Oh please, you're moving the goal posts.

"Sales" can easily mean number of units sold, first of all. Second of all, you yourself implied that units were not moving despite discounts. Own what you said instead of twisting things around to make yourself always right.

Speed Devil

Even as a kid in hs (03-07), knew it was a crock of shit

How do people still believe in that bullshit?

So if a kid in high school knew it, it must be true, right, lol? Who needs experts with fancy educations?

YOLO

So if a kid in high school knew it, it must be true, right, lol? Who needs experts with fancy educations?

You still trust "The Experts"?😂

https://discernreport.com/climate-c...world-are-pushing-back-against-the-narrative/
https://realclimatescience.com/#gsc.tab=0

Speed Devil

You still trust "The Experts"?😂

This is an absolute fact. Sadly, it's hard to know what to believe anymore when the experts, reporters, etc are all paid to push narratives..

Greta Thunberg and Al Gore say 'hold my beer'... LOL

raqball

This is an absolute fact. Sadly, it's hard to know what to believe anymore when the experts, reporters, etc are all paid to push narratives..

Greta Thunberg and Al Gore say 'hold my beer'... LOL

Yeah, even with all of their education, scientists don't agree on everything, it's true. Which makes it especially funny to think that you had it all figured out in high school.

YOLO

Yeah, even with all of their education, scientists don't agree on everything, it's true. Which makes it especially funny to think that you had it all figured out in high school.

Ahh, I didn't say anything about high school...

If you believe in climate change and all that jazz then cool beans. I am not generally a political type person and subscribe to the live and let live philosophy...

I personally think it's absolute hogwash but that's just my opinion.. And you are welcome to your opinion on it as well but no need to get nasty about it..

raqball

Ahh, I didn't say anything about high school...

If you believe in climate change and all that jazz then cool beans. I am not generally a political type person and subscribe to the live and let live philosophy...

I personally think it's absolute hogwash but that's just my opinion.. And you are welcome to your opinion on it as well but no need to get nasty about it..

Ah, my mistake, I thought I was replying to the other guy. I read two quickly and didn't realize that there were two replies to my post (yours and his).

I'm just going to talk about Broncos from now on.

YOLO

Ah, my mistake, I thought I was replying to the other guy. I read two quickly and didn't realize that there were two replies to my post (yours and his). I guess his response was just to post a link to some fringe non-peer-reviewed pseudoscience website.

This will be my last post on the topic.

According to Greta and Al we are already dead and have been for years so us having this convo either puts us in an episode of the twilight zone or they foamed at the mouth and lied to make some cold hard cash... And they are still at it today so I guess it must pay them well..

They don't want you to use a gas stove and say cow farts are going to end the world. They then board their private jets and fly around the world to caution us about cow farts.

I am not very bright (ask my ex-wife, she will confirm) but I am thinking that it's gonna take an awful lot, and I mean an awful lot, of cow farts to equal just one of their private jet flights....

I am not a cow fart expert so maybe cow farts are more toxic and harmful than I think.. 💩

Didn't read all 4 pages of this thread but it def seemed to get off the title of the thread... good entertainment fodder...

Not a Jeep hater at all. AT ALL, even though a few Jeep owners who I know have tried to pick fights with me despite the fact I do not hate Jeeps or any truck for that matter (ok well maybe the 6.0 Powerstroke LOL)
But I tried to build the closest Jeep I could to my Basesquatch with 35" tires, etc. I only picked the options required to get the $4400 package that was required to get the 35" tires/wheel/suspension. No big screen, heated seats, etc.
Only the 4 cylinder turbo was available with the build I did, which was fine since the 3.6 Pentastar is a dog (JMO and also confirmed by many to be not really reliable..) and the tally was $60k.
That is 18k more than my 2022 Basesquatch

BUT:

I built the lowest model with SAS available now, Badlands with SAS, $50k:

https://shop.ford.com/configure/bro...7...765.47C.2DR.BBD.]?intcmp=vhp-seconNav-fbc

The 2.0 turbo is way down on power to either Bronco engine:

https://www.planetchryslerjeepdodge.net/research/jeep-wrangler-engine-options.htm

https://www.jeep.com/bmo.wrangler.h...MU,Z5E,TVC,WF8,K7,UBP,HT1,AGB,CWA,CHD,XDB,22R.

Hope the link worked.
Comment if my builds are not what I said they are please

So I also think the new Jeep/Dodge/Fiat/ Stellantis new I-6 twin turbo looks very interesting!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39530125/stellantis-twin-turbo-inline-six-specs-details/

So those saying the Bronco is overpriced, well not so sure of that.

Nminus1

Not a Jeep hater at all. AT ALL, even though a few Jeep owners who I know have tried to pick fights with me despite the fact I do not hate Jeeps or any truck for that matter (ok well maybe the 6.0 Powerstroke LOL)
But I tried to build the closest Jeep I could to my Basesquatch with 35" tires, etc. I only picked the options required to get the $4400 package that was required to get the 35" tires/wheel/suspension. No big screen, heated seats, etc.
Only the 4 cylinder turbo was available with the build I did, which was fine since the 3.6 Pentastar is a dog (JMO and also confirmed by many to be not really reliable..) and the tally was $60k. That is 18k more than my 2022 Basesquatch.

https://www.jeep.com/bmo.wrangler.h...MU,Z5E,TVC,WF8,K7,UBP,HT1,AGB,CWA,CHD,XDB,22R.

Hope the link worked.

So I also think the new Jeep/Dodge/Fiat/ Stellantis new I-6 twin turbo looks very interesting!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39530125/stellantis-twin-turbo-inline-six-specs-details/

So those saying the Bronco is overpriced, well not so sure of that.

I just did the same.

I purchased my 2023 Badlands 2dr about a month ago and it was $50,500. I went and built a Jeep Rubicon 2dr and the price was $58350. I tried to equip the Rubicon as closely as I could to my Badlands.

The Badlands and Rubicon are very similar in most ways like front and rear lockers, sway bar disconnect, 33" tires, etc. I had to add leather seats to the Jeep as I would not want cloth and it was the only other option. I'd prefer the vinyl seats like the Badlands has but it's not an option for the Jeep. Also, I believe the stock bumper on the Rubicon is plastic whereas the Badlands has the HD modular bumper.

I was surprised to what is now the 'base" Bronco model has a 12" screen? With Subwoofer too? Ford added that then took it away now its back I guess. Pretty nice even though I know the regular speakers are junky at least the 4" ones need immediate replacement... the 6" kick panels ones in mine are OK and the only ones I haven't replaced (yet)

YOLO

Yeah, even with all of their education, scientists don't agree on everything, it's true. Which makes it especially funny to think that you had it all figured out in high school.

Im conservative even as a Kid. Even that aside, which of the following came true?

I think with that terrible track record and hysteria, normies should roll their eyes and laugh when “The Scientists” and “Experts” shed crocodile tears and rant hysterically how the worlds ending without us giving up our cars, moving into “smart cities”, eating ze bugs and giving them more $$$

JoergH

There's nothing you can say. Haters are gonna hate.

1. Gas and Diesel powered ICE engines are on the way out. Like it or not, that's a fact. Trying to argue for the status quo is a waste of time and energy to me.
2. The question is what's going to replace them? EV? Hydrogen? Some kind of Hybrid? Something else?
3. There's no simple answer to the above right now. It's a process that will take time, and the replacement options currently all have their limitations. In the end, I suspect that we will have different options available depending on how we use the vehicle.
4. Better battery technology is right around the corner. Toyota is saying that they will have a 500 mile battery in the next couple of years, and by 2027 they will have ultra-fast charging(as in 10-80% charge in 10 minutes).
5. In the meantime, I would argue that using an EV for a long road trip, for example, is probably not a good use case for them. You don't have to putter around town, just keep your trips to about 100 miles between chargers, and you're probably fine these days. However, a lot depends on where you're good as well. Superchargers aren't everywhere yet. Yes, there WILL be exceptions, and we will all learn what those look like ahead of time and plan accordingly.
6. Hybrids are a good stop-gap measure until the better battery tech is ready fore those that want to take long road trips into "the boonies".
7. EV's might not even be the long term solution. It might be Hydrogen, for example, or something we haven't even thought of yet, or more likely, some combination.

The "anything but ICE" haters are the same folks who tried to argue that the horse was better than that new fangled automobile. The fact of the matter is that if you had asked people at the time what they wanted, the answer would have been "a faster horse".

It’s an interesting position by some to think the automobile was highly rejected by the (horse-drawn) public some 130 years ago. As a student of automotive history, well before the modern advent of the EV and the internet, I never found that to be the case. Below is an of-the-era article on the subject, published in the New York Times.

I’ve highlighted some of the text relative to the proposition the automobile was at first unpopular. That said, I think the modern-day pitting of the BEV against the ICEV as analogous to the pitting of the horseless carriage to the ICEV (or even the BEV of the early 1900’s) is a false narrative. The gap between ownership and management of the horse and management of (even the rudimentary) automobile of the time was far greater than the gap between ICEV and EV. It’s not the same question in my mind.

Hopefully not TL:DR…

This article, “The Status of the Auto” ‐ Journal in February 1908. Its author, Henry Billings Brown (March 2, 1836 – Sept. 4, 1913), was a retired United States Supreme Court Justice (1891 – 1906).

The invention of the automobile has introduced upon the public roads of the country a novel and not altogether welcome guest. Although barely ten years since it first made its appearance, it has already conquered an important position in the domain of travel. Indeed, its great power, speed and weight have made it a veritable king of the highway, before whom we are all invited to prostrate ourselves. Though admitted to the use of the roads, in common with other vehicles, certain restrictions have been found necessary to curb its masterful and dominating influence.

With the advent of the automobile the courts were confronted with the proposition that a self propelled vehicle (would be] limited to no part of the highway, capable of the speed of an express train, and attended by cloud of dust and smoke, and the emission of a noisome odor. Notwithstanding these objections, automobiles have doubtless done much to earn their popularity. They have brought suburban towns within easy access from the city; they do not run upon a fixed track, and have no monopoly of any part of the highway; they do not seriously interfere with its use by other vehicles, and afford a most convenient and expeditious method of traveling between cities and outlying villages or country seats. In the form of electric runabouts, doctor's coupes, express and delivery wagons, and other teaming, they are rapidly superseding vehicles drawn by horses. They have largely taken the place of traveling carriages with those who are desirous of speed, and are content with little more than a perfunctory view of the scenery, which, however, cannot be thoroughly “taken in” when running at a rate of over twelve miles an hour.

To those who occupy or drive them, they are undoubtedly a fascinating amusement. The speed of which they are capable intoxicates and bewilders the senses, and deadens them to the dangers which surround the machine, and by a sudden mishap may turn in the twinkling of an eye into a terrible engine of destruction.

It is a fact too notorious to be ignored by the courts, that the excessive speed of automobiles costs the lives of many persons; and that scarcely a week, sometimes scarcely a day passes without chronicling from one to a dozen deaths occasioned by the reckless driving of these machines. Fortunately, the chauffeur and his guests are the usual sufferers, and in their misfortunes as lawbreakers, the general public do not much concern themselves. Our sympathies are rather reserved for the hapless, farmer whose horses are frightened, or whose wagon is wrecked, for a failure or inability to comply instantly with the chauffeur's signal; or for the bystander who is run down and crushed by the enormous weight of these engines.

The automobile lacks one of the most attractive concomitants of pleasure driving in the companionship of the horse. This is a feature which may not be considered by those who are indifferent to him, but to those who recognize an instinctive sympathy, more easily felt than described, between man and certain of the lower animals, such as the horse, the dog and the donkey, the cold and heartless mechanism of the automobile furnishes a poor substitute. The automobile is doubtless a most useful vehicle, but one is not likely to lavish upon it the fond attention he bestows upon his horse or dog. A man may admire his own carriage, but his affections are reserved for the horse that draws it and the dog that follows it.

The future of the automobile depends principally upon the chauffeur and his sponsors. If he observes faithfully the speed laws of the various localities (and herein lies the main obstacle to his popularity) he may expect to be accorded such rights as his superior speed requires for the perfect operation of his machine; but if he persists in defying these laws, he must expect legislation more drastic than any yet attempted; for after all, those who do not use automobiles are still a large majority and control the legislatures. It has been proposed that special roads be constructed for automobiles, upon which ordinary vehicles shall be excluded, and to which the speed laws should not apply. This might be satisfactory to the general public, but probably not to the automobilists themselves.

How far the automobile is a mere whim of fashion, and how far it meets a real need of the community, time can alone determine. Judging from its rapidly increasing numbers, it seems to have made a place for itself in the hearts of the people. Whether it will take its rank as one of the favorite vehicles of pleasure and commerce, or supplant them all, we shall eventually know—but not now. The lesson of the bicycle, for years an absorbing amusement of the highest classes, now a harmless though useful vehicle for school boys and messengers, will not be lost upon us. The automobile has much to contend against in its offensive characteristics, and above all, in the arrogant disregard of the rights of others with which it is often driven; but new inventions may obviate some of these difficulties, and a few sharp lessons from the courts may inculcate more respect for the rights of others.

Whatever the outcome may be, every true admirer of the horse will pray that it may not be the extinction or dethronement of the noblest of all domestic animals.

Its was going to happen at some point anyway.The initial rush is over, now sales will settle in.
The people who think ford needs to sell a million vehicles annualy to make it worth it are going to be sorely disappointed, sales will probably settle in at 50- 75 k
The soccer moms are rejecting the Bronco for imported hybrids. (there is a day care center down the road from work and I see what they drive)
I see Bronco mall crawlers at the high end restaurant around the corner, but none at the schools, hardware store or the cheaper restaurants.
Never saw one with mud on it.

Bronco V-8

Its was going to happen at some point anyway.The initial rush is over, now sales will settle in.
The people who think ford needs to sell a million vehicles annualy to make it worth it are going to be sorely disappointed, sales will probably settle in at 50- 75 k

I think part of the problem right now is that Jeep is heavily discounting Wranglers. One of the the dealers near me has 107 Wranglers on their lot and in their overflow lot. Most of them are being heavily discounted at around $15,000 off..

Sale? Yes. Profit? No. Take a loss on every sale to move them off the lot? Yes.

I'm not a bean counter so I can only guess that the goal of any bizz would be to not lose money on each and every sale...

You can have high sales numbers and massive losses at the same time.. I wonder if that is what's happening at Jeep right now?