Priced out of the market?

Foxtrot Bravo

Ford is losing a ton of money on every ev.
We can talk about this all day and at the end of the day it won't change a thing.Ford will still be doing the wrong thing and stock holders can't change it either because the family holds controlling interest in the company.
As for the losers lobbing insults you know who you are and I know what you are.

I think EV's in general are loosing their desirability.. I know I'd not buy another..

Here is my sad story of despair from when I owned my Tesla Model 3.

When I had my Model 3, I had numerous instances of almost being stranded.. Tesla tested my batteries several times after my many range complaints. They even sent the data to the mothership a few times to appease my complaints. They continually said the battery was fine and the car was preforming as it should.

My final straw, and why I eventually sold it:

I was leaving my sons house after Christmas and driving home. Total distance about 210 miles. My Model 3 had a 240 mile range.

About the mid point of the trip was a Tesla Supercharger station.. I believe from my sons house to it was something like 110 miles then another 100 miles from it to my home..

Car was charged to 100% before leaving my sons house, weather was freezing cold so I ran the heater and had the radio for music during the drive.. There were high winds and the route also has a mountain pass to contend with...

About 40 miles into the trip, the Model 3 told me to reduce speed to 60mph so I would make it to the charger.. At about 60 miles into the trip (about 50 miles from the Supercharger) it told me to reduce speed to 50mph to make the charger...

So a 240 mile ranged car can only make it 110 miles IF I reduce my speed to turtle levels.. I had little old ladies blowing past me on the freeway and I could swear a few of them flipped me off since I was going so slow...

I had to turn the heater on and off to try and preserve battery. When the cold got unbearable, I'd turn it back on to warm up a little then back off to save battery in the hopes I'd make it. I made it to the supercharger, a whopping 110 miles away, with something 2 percent battery left...

This was not the 1st time this happened to me but it was the final straw and was the main reason I decided to sell it..
During the fiasco described above, I did call Tesla and ask what I'd need to do since I didn't think I was going to make it.. They said if I ran out of juice on the trip to call them and they'd send a tow truck free of charge.. All fine and dandy but since it was freezing cold, no juice left to run heater, I assume I would have had icicles hanging off my nose when it arrived.. Luckily I made it to the charger... Barely...

Now imagine the above except I didn't make it and needed to wait for a tow. Probably an hour wait maybe longer. I was by myself but what if this happened to a family with small children. Freezing on the side of the road with no means to heat the inside of the car could have been very dangerous..

Anyways, that's my sad story of despair and why I would NOT buy another EV only vehicle.

Range anxiety is real and it should be because there are many factors that play into your range and if you'll even make the next charger.

I personally would not purchase another EV only vehicle until they reach at least a 500+ mile claimed range and fast chargers are more readily available. Gas stations are everywhere, fast chargers are not.

City ONLY driving? An EV would be fine but for anything other than that, I'd personally take a hard pass on buying another EV..

/sad story of despair..

raqball

I think EV's in general are loosing their desirability.. I know I'd not buy another..

Here is my sad story of despair from when I owned my Tesla Model 3.

When I had my Model 3, I had numerous instances of almost being stranded.. Tesla tested my batteries several times after my many range complaints. They even sent the data to the mothership a few times to appease my complaints. They continually said the battery was fine and the car was preforming as it should.

My final straw, and why I eventually sold it:

I was leaving my sons house after Christmas and driving home. Total distance about 210 miles. My Model 3 had a 240 mile range.

About the mid point of the trip was a Tesla Supercharger station.. I believe from my sons house to it was something like 110 miles then another 100 miles from it to my home..

Car was charged to 100% before leaving my sons house, weather was freezing cold so I ran the heater and had the radio for music during the drive.. There were high winds and the route also has a mountain pass to contend with...

About 40 miles into the trip, the Model 3 told me to reduce speed to 60mph so I would make it to the charger.. At about 60 miles into the trip (about 50 miles from the Supercharger) it told me to reduce speed to 50mph to make the charger...

So a 240 mile ranged car can only make it 110 miles IF I reduce my speed to turtle levels.. I had little old ladies blowing past me on the freeway and I could swear a few of them flipped me off since I was going so slow...

I had to turn the heater on and off to try and preserve battery. When the cold got unbearable, I'd turn it back on to warm up a little then back off to save battery in the hopes I'd make it. I made it to the supercharger, a whopping 110 miles away, with something 2 percent battery left...

This was not the 1st time this happened to me but it was the final straw and was the main reason I decided to sell it..
During the fiasco described above, I did call Tesla and ask what I'd need to do since I didn't think I was going to make it.. They said if I ran out of juice on the trip to call them and they'd send a tow truck free of charge.. All fine and dandy but since it was freezing cold, no juice left to run heater, I assume I would have had icicles hanging off my nose when it arrived.. Luckily I made it to the charger... Barely...

Now imagine the above except I didn't make it and needed to wait for a tow. Probably an hour wait maybe longer. I was by myself but what if this happened to a family with small children. Freezing on the side of the road with no means to heat the inside of the car could have been very dangerous..

Anyways, that's my sad story of despair and why I would NOT buy another EV only vehicle.

Range anxiety is real and it should be because there are many factors that play into your range and if you'll even make the next charger.

I personally would not purchase another EV only vehicle until they reach at least a 500+ mile claimed range and fast chargers are more readily available. Gas stations are everywhere, fast chargers are not.

City ONLY driving? An EV would be fine but for anything other than that, I'd personally take a hard pass on buying another EV..

/sad story of despair..

Yup, I wouldn't buy an EV to use for road trips right now, that's for sure. However,there's a lot of new technology on the horizon. Toyota thinks that they will have long range (500 miles) in 2 years and ultrafast changing in 2027. The bottom lines is that ICE as the dominant technology is going away. It's a question of what will replace it when and for what use cases?

raqball

I think EV's in general are loosing their desirability.. I know I'd not buy another..

Here is my sad story of despair from when I owned my Tesla Model 3.

When I had my Model 3, I had numerous instances of almost being stranded.. Tesla tested my batteries several times after my many range complaints. They even sent the data to the mothership a few times to appease my complaints. They continually said the battery was fine and the car was preforming as it should.

My final straw, and why I eventually sold it:

I was leaving my sons house after Christmas and driving home. Total distance about 210 miles. My Model 3 had a 240 mile range.

About the mid point of the trip was a Tesla Supercharger station.. I believe from my sons house to it was something like 110 miles then another 100 miles from it to my home..

Car was charged to 100% before leaving my sons house, weather was freezing cold so I ran the heater and had the radio for music during the drive.. There were high winds and the route also has a mountain pass to contend with...

About 40 miles into the trip, the Model 3 told me to reduce speed to 60mph so I would make it to the charger.. At about 60 miles into the trip (about 50 miles from the Supercharger) it told me to reduce speed to 50mph to make the charger...

So a 240 mile ranged car can only make it 110 miles IF I reduce my speed to turtle levels.. I had little old ladies blowing past me on the freeway and I could swear a few of them flipped me off since I was going so slow...

I had to turn the heater on and off to try and preserve battery. When the cold got unbearable, I'd turn it back on to warm up a little then back off to save battery in the hopes I'd make it. I made it to the supercharger, a whopping 110 miles away, with something 2 percent battery left...

This was not the 1st time this happened to me but it was the final straw and was the main reason I decided to sell it..
During the fiasco described above, I did call Tesla and ask what I'd need to do since I didn't think I was going to make it.. They said if I ran out of juice on the trip to call them and they'd send a tow truck free of charge.. All fine and dandy but since it was freezing cold, no juice left to run heater, I assume I would have had icicles hanging off my nose when it arrived.. Luckily I made it to the charger... Barely...

Now imagine the above except I didn't make it and needed to wait for a tow. Probably an hour wait maybe longer. I was by myself but what if this happened to a family with small children. Freezing on the side of the road with no means to heat the inside of the car could have been very dangerous..

Anyways, that's my sad story of despair and why I would NOT buy another EV only vehicle.

Range anxiety is real and it should be because there are many factors that play into your range and if you'll even make the next charger.

I personally would not purchase another EV only vehicle until they reach at least a 500+ mile claimed range and fast chargers are more readily available. Gas stations are everywhere, fast chargers are not.

City ONLY driving? An EV would be fine but for anything other than that, I'd personally take a hard pass on buying another EV..

/sad story of despair..

My nephews cousin had a real horror story, waited years to get a Tesla. decided to drive to FLA to visit some friends, took a week to get there normally its 22 hour drive.
Had to stop to recharge often and it would take a long long time to recharge. He was so mad when he got there he shipped the car home and flew back.

YOLO

Actually, sales nearly tripled last month due to discounts and dealer lots are apparently clearing out: https://www.google.com/search?q=mus...iHApgDCJIHCDE5LjUuNi0xoAfK2AE&sclient=gws-wiz

Taking $ losses

Bronco V-8

My nephews cousin had a real horror story, waited years to get a Tesla. decided to drive to FLA to visit some friends, took a week to get there normally its 22 hour drive.
Had to stop to recharge often and it would take a long long time to recharge. He was so mad when he got there he shipped the car home and flew back.

I could 100% see that happening..

Recharge times didn't really bother me and for normal city use, I'd just charge it at home... For road trip charging it was hit and miss. You 100% needed a Supercharger and even then you'd be looking at about 45 min to an hour to charge depending... Trying to charge at a non Supercharger? Forget it unless you had several hours to waste or were staying overnight..

The Tesla had YouTube, Netflix, Hulu and other apps so I'd watch shows and videos while it charged.. I was solo but I could see this being more of an issue with kids aboard. Maybe you could slap some cartoons on to keep them entertained..

The issue for long road trips like you described is they would take MUCH longer than with a gas vehicle. With a gas vehicle it takes 5 minutes to fill up and you are on your way. Even with a Supercharger you'd be looking at 45 minutes... Aside from that, like I previously said, gas stations are everywhere, Superchargers are not.. Making it the next charger could be problematic or impossible depending on weather, road and other conditions that you have zero control over..

OrangecrushBronco

Taking $ losses

Ford's electric-vehicle business lost nearly $4.7 billion in 2023 and could lose another $5 billion this year.

Bronco V-8

Ford's electric-vehicle business lost nearly $4.7 billion in 2023 and could lose another $5 billion this year.

I think Toyota said they are pretty much done with EV's and are focusing on hybrids.. A hybrid makes sense. EV battery mode for putting around town then gas for long trips..

Bronco V-8

Ford's electric-vehicle business lost nearly $4.7 billion in 2023 and could lose another $5 billion this year.

#Fordgoals

raqball

I could 100% see that happening..

Recharge times didn't really bother me and for normal city use, I'd just charge it at home... For road trip charging it was hit and miss. You 100% needed a Supercharger and even then you'd be looking at about 45 min to an hour to charge depending... Trying to charge at a non Supercharger? Forget it unless you had several hours to waste or were staying overnight..

The Tesla had YouTube, Netflix, Hulu and other apps so I'd watch shows and videos while it charged.. I was solo but I could see this being more of an issue with kids aboard. Maybe you could slap some cartoons on to keep them entertained..

The issue for long road trips like you described is they would take MUCH longer than with a gas vehicle. With a gas vehicle it takes 5 minutes to fill up and you are on your way. Even with a Supercharger you'd be looking at 45 minutes... Aside from that, like I previously said, gas stations are everywhere, Superchargers are not.. Making it the next charger could be problematic or impossible depending on weather, road and other conditions that you have zero control over..

I only recognize 1 definition of supercharger and this whole thing is out of context. 😆

This is a supercharger.

OrangecrushBronco

Taking $ losses

No dispute. But sales are indeed up, contrary to the original claim. You implied that EVEN with HUGE discounts Ford couldn't get rid of these Mach-E's. And yet sales tripled. I don't see how I can explain myself any more clearly.

Bronco V-8

https://www.breitbart.com/news/ford...up-and-large-suv-as-us-ev-sales-growth-slows/

The key word there is slows...

Overall, EV sales have not grown as much as Wallstreet thought they would, but they did grow. But we've drifted a lot off the original posting/subject...

YOLO

No dispute. But sales are indeed up, contrary to the original claim. You implied that EVEN with HUGE discounts Ford couldn't get rid of these Mach-E's. And yet sales tripled. I don't see how I can explain myself any more clearly.

There's nothing you can say. Haters are gonna hate.

1. Gas and Diesel powered ICE engines are on the way out. Like it or not, that's a fact. Trying to argue for the status quo is a waste of time and energy to me.
2. The question is what's going to replace them? EV? Hydrogen? Some kind of Hybrid? Something else?
3. There's no simple answer to the above right now. It's a process that will take time, and the replacement options currently all have their limitations. In the end, I suspect that we will have different options available depending on how we use the vehicle.
4. Better battery technology is right around the corner. Toyota is saying that they will have a 500 mile battery in the next couple of years, and by 2027 they will have ultra-fast charging(as in 10-80% charge in 10 minutes).
5. In the meantime, I would argue that using an EV for a long road trip, for example, is probably not a good use case for them. You don't have to putter around town, just keep your trips to about 100 miles between chargers, and you're probably fine these days. However, a lot depends on where you're good as well. Superchargers aren't everywhere yet. Yes, there WILL be exceptions, and we will all learn what those look like ahead of time and plan accordingly.
6. Hybrids are a good stop-gap measure until the better battery tech is ready fore those that want to take long road trips into "the boonies".
7. EV's might not even be the long term solution. It might be Hydrogen, for example, or something we haven't even thought of yet, or more likely, some combination.

The "anything but ICE" haters are the same folks who tried to argue that the horse was better than that new fangled automobile. The fact of the matter is that if you had asked people at the time what they wanted, the answer would have been "a faster horse".

JoergH

I think that "for many buyers" might be a bit of a reach. For people who want to wheel their truck hard, yes. But that's a fairly small subset of buyers. MOST of the people buying a Bronco or a Wrangler (let's be specific, Jeep has a bunch of different models) aren't going to do any level 9 trails, ever. The vast majority of both Broncos and Wranglers are used as mall crawlers and for light offloading. The vast majority of people buying a Rubicon or a SAS equipped Bronco MIGHT, at best, hit some 4 or 5 level trails once in a while, and those vehicles can handle those trails right out of the box. Therefore, those folks won't make any mods to make their vehicle more offroad worthy. So the whole straight axle vs IFS conversation among hard core enthusiatss is interesting to a tiny percentage of buyers, like the ones on this forum, but means nothing to 95%+ of buyers.

I agree that price and interest rates, especially in combination, are hurting Bronco sales and a lot of that is being driven by both dealer and Ford corporate greed. Jeep has had the Wrangler on fire sale for a while now in order tocomnbat the Bronco's erosion of their market share, and I think we've reached a point in the market where Ford and the dealers need to recognize that they are now in a price war with Jeep and act accordingly (i.e. drop prices and give folks incentives).

Last, but not least, manual transmissions are also a TINY amount of the market. Modern buyers want an auto and 4 doors. Again, you can't look at the Bronco from the perspective of hard core off-roaders and what they need/want. Oh, and even there, there's an argument to be made that an auto is superior off-road vs. the manual.

I ordered a 2dr Black Diamond with a manny, that is scheduled for build Apr 8th. I actually ordered it because of the 7spd, no auto tranny for me, the manny is way more fun to play with! I had to order because there weren`t any manual transmission models available. As you called it, light off road with mostly hard surface operation. Just hoping that I don`t get bent over too bad on pricing.

Carbon capture is going to change to whole thing.

JoergH

The "anything but ICE" haters are the same folks who tried to argue that the horse was better than that new fangled automobile.

Those people are all dead so I doubt it. 😁

JoergH

There's nothing you can say. Haters are gonna hate.

1. Gas and Diesel powered ICE engines are on the way out. Like it or not, that's a fact. Trying to argue for the status quo is a waste of time and energy to me.
2. The question is what's going to replace them? EV? Hydrogen? Some kind of Hybrid? Something else?
3. There's no simple answer to the above right now. It's a process that will take time, and the replacement options currently all have their limitations. In the end, I suspect that we will have different options available depending on how we use the vehicle.
4. Better battery technology is right around the corner. Toyota is saying that they will have a 500 mile battery in the next couple of years, and by 2027 they will have ultra-fast charging(as in 10-80% charge in 10 minutes).
5. In the meantime, I would argue that using an EV for a long road trip, for example, is probably not a good use case for them. You don't have to putter around town, just keep your trips to about 100 miles between chargers, and you're probably fine these days. However, a lot depends on where you're good as well. Superchargers aren't everywhere yet. Yes, there WILL be exceptions, and we will all learn what those look like ahead of time and plan accordingly.
6. Hybrids are a good stop-gap measure until the better battery tech is ready fore those that want to take long road trips into "the boonies".
7. EV's might not even be the long term solution. It might be Hydrogen, for example, or something we haven't even thought of yet, or more likely, some combination.

The "anything but ICE" haters are the same folks who tried to argue that the horse was better than that new fangled automobile. The fact of the matter is that if you had asked people at the time what they wanted, the answer would have been "a faster horse".

Without Biden and his puppet masters, this EV push dies, and they know it

Hopefully Trump lets the market do as it pleases rather than shove this EV crap down our throats and sanity will return. Without govt, be diesel Broncos and vehicles without obnoxious emissions crap, and we’d have had factory V8 models instead of these dinky 4 and 6 banger turbos.

I dont see “WARNING:NO POLITICS”, so dont see a reason this should be taken down or anything, although I will screenshot it to he safe.

As for why the EV Push:

YOLO

No dispute. But sales are indeed up, contrary to the original claim. You implied that EVEN with HUGE discounts Ford couldn't get rid of these Mach-E's. And yet sales tripled. I don't see how I can explain myself any more clearly.

WITHOUT the discounts and subsidies, would they even move?

No one truly wants them, and once those batteries start dying, the owners will be left with an oversized paperweight.

Bronco V-8

Carbon capture is going to change to whole thing.

Planet is going through Carbon Starvation as we speak.

How did everyone forget elementary school science where plants need CO2 for their survival?