Priced out of the market?

JoergH

Except Ford was selling the heck out of them.

Commercially they've been a failure. They've been sitting on lots in droves even with an endless barrage of incentives and discounts attached to them. They were selling but nobody was taking.

Foxtrot Bravo

Key word "was"

When they were practically the only cars available on the Ford lots and people were desperate.

Foxtrot Bravo

I was mostly referring to the idea that everything is a moredoor.

Yep like the NOT a Mustang Machless E . 4 doors and a hatch.

OrangecrushBronco

Commercially they've been a failure. They've been sitting on lots in droves even with an endless barrage of incentives and discounts attached to them. They were selling but nobody was taking.

Actually, sales nearly tripled last month due to discounts and dealer lots are apparently clearing out: https://www.google.com/search?q=mus...iHApgDCJIHCDE5LjUuNi0xoAfK2AE&sclient=gws-wiz

WhaT's a JeEp?

Well, not like it makes a difference but, being a stock holder I voted AGAINST all the principles that I could, even Farley! And personally I do believe Ford is pricing themselves OUT of the market. Those of us who came from owning Broncos in the past were a lock, but everyone else was buying the next big thing. Whereas Jeep has had a consistent following since day 1. Ford could've killed Jeep if they kept prices at or close to where they were in 2021. But they thought with all the hype over the launch that they'd just keep raking it in. Well guess what? Everything is expensive, interest rates suck, and Broncos now sit on the lot. Go figure.

EvlNvrDys

Well, not like it makes a difference but, being a stock holder I voted AGAINST all the principles that I could, even Farley! And personally I do believe Ford is pricing themselves OUT of the market. Those of us who came from owning Broncos in the past were a lock, but everyone else was buying the next big thing. Whereas Jeep has had a consistent following since day 1. Ford could've killed Jeep if they kept prices at or close to where they were in 2021. But they thought with all the hype over the launch that they'd just keep raking it in. Well guess what? Everything is expensive, interest rates suck, and Broncos now sit on the lot. Go figure.

part of the price issues were the dealers gouging. Remember dealers pricing $30k over MSRP.....and people paid it. It opened the flood gates for prices to remain high. It was good for those of us with pre-orders....

I can say, I love my bronco. But it's expensive. Interest is high 8.5% about $550 a month payment and I spend about 600 in gas just commuting to and from work. I might have to bail and get something cheaper and less fun. The prices for new vehicles need to drop. I think the cheapest new vehicle is 17k now.

Xpathf1nderX

part of the price issues were the dealers gouging. Remember dealers pricing $30k over MSRP.....and people paid it. It opened the flood gates for prices to remain high. It was good for those of us with pre-orders....

Just because dealers were A-holes and Ford did NOTHING to combat it doesn't make it right. Ford should've stopped the dealers in the 1st place.

And yes, luckily some of use had early reservations, and likewise some of us negotiated pretty good deals out of the gate.

YOLO

Actually, sales nearly tripled last month due to discounts and dealer lots are apparently clearing out: https://www.google.com/search?q=mus...iHApgDCJIHCDE5LjUuNi0xoAfK2AE&sclient=gws-wiz

From article…
I wouldn’t really call it a success for Ford.

Mach-E sales didn’t really start until late February when it announced price cuts of up to $8,100 on leftover 2023 Mach-Es. When the discounts hit, demand skyrocketed. Since then sales of the electric crossover have nearly tripled.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that Ford is out of the woods just yet. Cutting prices also means cutting into profits. Sometimes, though, that’s better than sitting back while unsold inventory builds up on dealer lots. And while the Mach-E is selling better than it was, Ford reportedly still had about 18,000 units in its inventory at the end of March and is still dealing with a turn rate that’s below average.

EvlNvrDys

Well, not like it makes a difference but, being a stock holder I voted AGAINST all the principles that I could, even Farley! And personally I do believe Ford is pricing themselves OUT of the market. Those of us who came from owning Broncos in the past were a lock, but everyone else was buying the next big thing. Whereas Jeep has had a consistent following since day 1. Ford could've killed Jeep if they kept prices at or close to where they were in 2021. But they thought with all the hype over the launch that they'd just keep raking it in. Well guess what? Everything is expensive, interest rates suck, and Broncos now sit on the lot. Go figure.

Same here, I still have F stock.Farleys mistakes hurt both the consumer and the stock holder.He needs to go
Ford had jeep by the balls in the first year with the base having ac and a hard top for 28k while jeep needed $4000 in options to achieve the same level.
But that has changed. Jeep has the advantage by offering a NA V6 with a manual box and solid front axle that will always put Jeep ahead of the Bronco for many buyers.

Foxtrot Bravo

Same here, I still have F stock.Farleys mistakes hurt both the consumer and the stock holder.He needs to go
Ford had jeep by the balls in the first year with the base having ac and a hard top for 28k while jeep needed $4000 in options to achieve the same level.
But that has changed. Jeep has the advantage by offering a NA V6 with a manual box and solid front axle that will always put Jeep ahead of the Bronco for many buyers.

Jeeps have a loyal following that's been built over decades, all the way back to the AMC days. Many Jeep owners would never buy anything but another Jeep.

The Bronco originally sold like hot cakes because people like me who loved the 1st gen's were foaming at the mouth to get one. I had to wait to get mine but I finally have it..

Wranglers have advantages but the Bronco has advantages as well.. In my area, the PNW, Broncos are hard'ish to find on dealer lot whereas Jeeps are everywhere. And I mean everywhere. Even with them now being heavily discounted they still sit on lots.

See my post # 3 for some on the lot numbers of Jeeps near me.

• https://thebronconation.com/general...priced-out-of-the-market-t.20453/#post-309149

That one Jeep dealer I linked to in my area has 106 Wranglers on the lot (and in their overflow lot). Scratch that, it now says they have 107 so they must have gotten another delivered. Of the 2 Ford dealers in my area 1 has zero Broncos and 2 Braptors and the other has 2 Bronco 4dr's and 1 BRaptors on it's lot.

Most of the Wranglers are heavily, and I mean heavily, discounted now. Like $15K off and Jeep still can't move them with any speed..

I am skeptical of the article listed in the OP as it is not what I see in my area.. Not blaming the OP, but the article just does not line up with the lot #'s in my area.

Foxtrot Bravo

Same here, I still have F stock.Farleys mistakes hurt both the consumer and the stock holder.He needs to go
Ford had jeep by the balls in the first year with the base having ac and a hard top for 28k while jeep needed $4000 in options to achieve the same level.
But that has changed. Jeep has the advantage by offering a NA V6 with a manual box and solid front axle that will always put Jeep ahead of the Bronco for many buyers.

I think that "for many buyers" might be a bit of a reach. For people who want to wheel their truck hard, yes. But that's a fairly small subset of buyers. MOST of the people buying a Bronco or a Wrangler (let's be specific, Jeep has a bunch of different models) aren't going to do any level 9 trails, ever. The vast majority of both Broncos and Wranglers are used as mall crawlers and for light offloading. The vast majority of people buying a Rubicon or a SAS equipped Bronco MIGHT, at best, hit some 4 or 5 level trails once in a while, and those vehicles can handle those trails right out of the box. Therefore, those folks won't make any mods to make their vehicle more offroad worthy. So the whole straight axle vs IFS conversation among hard core enthusiatss is interesting to a tiny percentage of buyers, like the ones on this forum, but means nothing to 95%+ of buyers.

I agree that price and interest rates, especially in combination, are hurting Bronco sales and a lot of that is being driven by both dealer and Ford corporate greed. Jeep has had the Wrangler on fire sale for a while now in order tocomnbat the Bronco's erosion of their market share, and I think we've reached a point in the market where Ford and the dealers need to recognize that they are now in a price war with Jeep and act accordingly (i.e. drop prices and give folks incentives).

Last, but not least, manual transmissions are also a TINY amount of the market. Modern buyers want an auto and 4 doors. Again, you can't look at the Bronco from the perspective of hard core off-roaders and what they need/want. Oh, and even there, there's an argument to be made that an auto is superior off-road vs. the manual.

JoergH

Also, Jeep's been advertising the HECK out of the Wrangler for a year. They also deal, big time, on them. I just had a buddy buy a Wrangler 4xe and well below MSRP.

Last but not least, interest rates have been killing car sales in general, and the Bronco more than most. Who wants to pay that kind of interest for a pricey off-roader?

I pass 2 jeep dealerships on my way to work, one has 27 wranglers in stock 16 being 4xE's the other has 45 in stock 29 being 4xE's. Website on Downingtown dealership says 1.9% financing for 72 months for the 4xE's I know ford is doing 72 months @ 0% on Mach E's. I think the bubble has busted on the EV thing.

This is not a "Ford" thing. We have been in a volatile market for several years now and it's not going to change soon.
So the numbers are only a snapshot of the moment.

I would believe jeep will hold the lead in this segment of the market. It's theirs to loose.

I'm dealing with this stuff on bigger trucks. Freightliner raised price 20k, in one year! Same with Pete and KW. And I still have a wait.
I'm getting my first Mack because of price and availability. And it's got limited options.

And the huge cost increases because of diesel engine and emission regulations in a couple states affecting price all over the industry.

JoergH

I think that "for many buyers" might be a bit of a reach. For people who want to wheel their truck hard, yes. But that's a fairly small subset of buyers. MOST of the people buying a Bronco or a Wrangler (let's be specific, Jeep has a bunch of different models) aren't going to do any level 9 trails, ever. The vast majority of both Broncos and Wranglers are used as mall crawlers and for light offloading. The vast majority of people buying a Rubicon or a SAS equipped Bronco MIGHT, at best, hit some 4 or 5 level trails once in a while, and those vehicles can handle those trails right out of the box. Therefore, those folks won't make any mods to make their vehicle more offroad worthy. So the whole straight axle vs IFS conversation among hard core enthusiatss is interesting to a tiny percentage of buyers, like the ones on this forum, but means nothing to 95%+ of buyers.

Fully agree.

I am a prime example of this. I do not hardcore wheel.. I mainly do easy to moderate trails. I wheel in, camp for the night, then wheel back out the next day. I am not a rock crawler and probably fit nicely into your 4-5 (max) level trail rating.

I try to get out once or maybe twice a month for my short one night trips. I am a wimp and do not go when cold or when moderate to heavy rain is forecasted.

I am still not buying the original article though as it's nowhere even close to what I am seeing in my area unless lot #'s are not telling me the true story..

extra toasty

From article…
I wouldn’t really call it a success for Ford.

Mach-E sales didn’t really start until late February when it announced price cuts of up to $8,100 on leftover 2023 Mach-Es. When the discounts hit, demand skyrocketed. Since then sales of the electric crossover have nearly tripled.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that Ford is out of the woods just yet. Cutting prices also means cutting into profits. Sometimes, though, that’s better than sitting back while unsold inventory builds up on dealer lots. And while the Mach-E is selling better than it was, Ford reportedly still had about 18,000 units in its inventory at the end of March and is still dealing with a turn rate that’s below average.

Oh, I don't disagree. I never called it a win for Ford - I imagine they must be losing money per unit with that kind of discount. Or maybe they're still making a profit and this is just a market correction.

I was only disputing the assertion that Mach-E sales were declining despite price cuts, when in fact the opposite is true. It would seem that there IS a demand for these vehicles at some price, although whether or not that is a price that Ford can sustain is questionable.

YOLO

Oh, I don't disagree. I never called it a win for Ford - I imagine they must be losing money per unit with that kind of discount. Or maybe they're still making a profit and this is just a market correction.

I was only disputing the assertion that Mach-E sales were declining despite price cuts, when in fact the opposite is true. It would seem that there IS a demand for these vehicles at some price, although whether or not that is a price that Ford can sustain is questionable.

Your right. Now consider the last statement in the article “ Ford reportedly still had about 18,000 units in its inventory at the end of March and is still dealing with a turn rate that’s below average”.
Pretty sure Ford is losing money on every EV they sell even without any discounts.

Ford is in trouble…

Jeep has made a ton of sales to fleets, and Bronco hasn't just yet (and selfishly, I wish Ford wouldn't). Either way, I'm glad I have my Bronco; Jeep lost me when they stopped making the Cherokee XJ-style.

extra toasty

Your right. Now consider the last statement in the article “ Ford reportedly still had about 18,000 units in its inventory at the end of March and is still dealing with a turn rate that’s below average”.
Pretty sure Ford is losing money on every EV they sell even without any discounts.

Ford is in trouble…

Ford is losing a ton of money on every ev.
We can talk about this all day and at the end of the day it won't change a thing.Ford will still be doing the wrong thing and stock holders can't change it either because the family holds controlling interest in the company.
As for the losers lobbing insults you know who you are and I know what you are.