Bronco Safari 2024 permit denied

JoergH

My experience with SxSs is pretty negative when it comes to trail etiquette etc. but that might just be me. It could be that there too a few bad apples have now ruined it for the whole bunch as well.

Pretty much mine too. One example, a group of us 6Gs were taking turns getting our photos on Top of the World this past May, and a bunch of SxSs (rentals of course) butted in, got in the way, caused a scene.

They usually don't have the knowledge of trail etiquette, or are too selfish to care.

TechnicalDisaster

I'm basing my comments off the information that no one from the Bronco Utah Club attended the permit hearing. I apologize in advance if my information is incorrect, and if so, you can disregard my comments.

But if you didn't have a representative at the permit hearing, here are my thoughts:

I think you made a mistake calling for attendees to release their reservations and skip the trip in order to "prove the economic impact" on having the permit denied. The businesses that serve the Moab area had nothing to do with your group skipping the hearing and discussing your solutions to the problems. The businesses that serve Moab have nothing to do with your choice to move the event elsewhere, rather than re-apply for the permit in your 30 day grace period. All other problematic permits were approved that day, because the applicant was in attendance to defend their application.

You are "taking your ball and going home," while also trying to force the businesses to make a stand in your place, when you chose to not defend yourselves. I think that's unfair and will cause you even more problems down the road. The committee members will certainly learn of your Facebook post (if they haven't already) and it will just reinforce their belief that you are difficult to work with. Just look at the comments that have been made in support of you. They're going to give the Bronco commnunity a black eye, which will make it harder for anyone to hold events in this area.

I kindly ask you to amend your statement and remove the collateral damage.

I stand by our statement and actions.

You are correct we did not attend the meeting, in the previous 13 years we have also never attended the meeting(s) and have been told we could not attend in person previously. Now it seems we should have attended this meeting, unfortunately the county did not make this known to us. There was no invite, no email saying here is a zoom if you can't make it in person nothing.

Grand county has made it increasingly more difficult and expensive to host the event. I am also well aware they monitor social media and our statements will be held against us when we apply for a 2025 permit and we do plan to be there in person for the meeting. They are welcome to reach out to discuss why they failed to read or acknowledge the mitigations we put in place to help prevent issues such as altercation with a "soccer mom" or "facility damage" etc. They even said when discussing our event that you can't control everyone. They are right we can't and we had some problems which we addressed as soon as we were made aware. They also misstated the grafiti was done to a petroglyph which it was not and it wasn't during an official trail, even with that we drove out the next weekend and helped clean it up.

I do acknowledge the unfortunate side effect of potentially hurting the businesses in and around Moab financially and I encourage them if they want and are willing to hold the county accountable for denying our intent to apply.

Localrich

317 Miles of trails closed

Well the said part is this is getting one across the country. MI has passed laws doing the same. There are trails that you can't off road on during the winter, etc. Keep calling and complaining, but to your elected reps, not here.

An idea:
To get a permit to drive on the Cape Cod National Seashore, you must comply with a number of requirements. You must present your vehicle at a Ranger Station where it is checked for capability (e.g. tire size) and equipment (jack, foot-square jack stand, tire gauge, etc.). Then you have to watch a video about beach driving regulations, etiquette, and technique, with special emphasis on ecology and wildlife issues.

Why not set up a similar procedure for trail access on federal trails? Qualify for a permit, pay a (stiff) fee, enjoy the trails responsibly, and use the fees for trail maintenance and enforcement.

The Cape Cod fee is $150. A similar fee (coupled with hefty fines for noncompliance), plus mandatory equipment and education criteria) should cull the herd of irresponsible trail users. I think jerk joyriders on one-day rentals will be less enthusiastic of shelling out $150 (or so) for a season pass when an afternoon's rental already sets them back $300+.

This will hit us, of course, and the once-a-year off-roader who visits Moab for 4-5 days, once a year, will be hurt disproportionately. We all know this is an expensive hobby. But the expansion of our motorsport means more trail traffic, and we'll have to shoulder more of the burden, either by deprivation of trail use, or participating more substantially in the care and protection of the land.

BostonBadlands

An idea:
To get a permit to drive on the Cape Cod National Seashore, you must comply with a number of requirements. You must present your vehicle at a Ranger Station where it is checked for capability (e.g. tire size) and equipment (jack, foot-square jack stand, tire gauge, etc.). Then you have to watch a video about beach driving regulations, etiquette, and technique, with special emphasis on ecology and wildlife issues.

Why not set up a similar procedure for trail access on federal trails? Qualify for a permit, pay a (stiff) fee, enjoy the trails responsibly, and use the fees for trail maintenance and enforcement.

The Cape Cod fee is $150. A similar fee (coupled with hefty fines for noncompliance), plus mandatory equipment and education criteria) should cull the herd of irresponsible trail users. I think jerk joyriders on one-day rentals will be less enthusiastic of shelling out $150 (or so) for a season pass when an afternoon's rental already sets them back $300+.

I like this idea very much…

MIGeezer

Why would you punish the folks that had nothing to do with this. The business owners have always backed the off road folks. Instead get on the phone, by the hundreds and thousands and call you federal reps/senators and put pressure on them. Before I hear, "calls don't work", dial the phone first and then cry like a baby. If you call, the numbers grow, they work.

Businessowners in Moab don't all support the off-road users. Some only support hikers and mechanized bicycles and will donate money to groups (such as SUWA) to keep trails closed to off-road users - motorized users. But, when motorized enthusiasts are in Moab, they don't know which businesses support what - so some business would suffer, a little. And I'm not saying that a phone call is wasted, but, say you call your reps in MI about trail closures in Price Co Utah (I think Moab is in Price Co), what do you expect them to do? The trail closures are done by the BLM and Forestry Services - not that a state or fed rep doesn't have any influence, but they don't.
You have to read the Travel Plan of closure and then go back to them within their response period and thoroughly debunk, with evidence, on why their reasonings are not fair. I've done this a lot with New Mexico and Utah. This process is not for the weak and those that think a "phone call" to your rep is sufficient. There is a lot of reading, researching. NMOVHA was actually able to hire an ex BLM employee. She lead a full day class on how to do this - because she was sick of BLM people that were against motorized use and how they bent their own rules to make motorized users voices silent. We have a doctor with 5 PHD's and he practiced Nuclear Medicine in our club (well he is still a member) and he fought Price BLM when they closed June Bottom's road (near 3D trail in Moab) and lost. This lady knew the case forwards and backwards and was able to use it for examples as she explained each of the steps to us that day - using where he lacked in his evidence to support what she was saying. He was in the class and confirmed everything she said that he had done and why it was the wrong thing to do and why he didn't win.
Sorry @MIGeezer because I don't want to poopoo your suggestion. But, it lacks on what it will take to successfully fight the closures.
This is why I thought that the Bronco Safari donation of $5k to Blue Ribbon Coalition was good! I think that this could be something BN needs to consider - because if Ford promotes the Bronco as off-road capable and then there are no trails to take our Bronco on.....

Darrel

Businessowners in Moab don't all support the off-road users. Some only support hikers and mechanized bicycles and will donate money to groups (such as SUWA) to keep trails closed to off-road users - motorized users. But, when motorized enthusiasts are in Moab, they don't know which businesses support what - so some business would suffer, a little. And I'm not saying that a phone call is wasted, but, say you call your reps in MI about trail closures in Price Co Utah (I think Moab is in Price Co), what do you expect them to do? The trail closures are done by the BLM and Forestry Services - not that a state or fed rep doesn't have any influence, but they don't.
You have to read the Travel Plan of closure and then go back to them within their response period and thoroughly debunk, with evidence, on why their reasonings are not fair. I've done this a lot with New Mexico and Utah. This process is not for the weak and those that think a "phone call" to your rep is sufficient. There is a lot of reading, researching. NMOVHA was actually able to hire an ex BLM employee. She lead a full day class on how to do this - because she was sick of BLM people that were against motorized use and how they bent their own rules to make motorized users voices silent. We have a doctor with 5 PHD's and he practiced Nuclear Medicine in our club (well he is still a member) and he fought Price BLM when they closed June Bottom's road (near 3D trail in Moab) and lost. This lady knew the case forwards and backwards and was able to use it for examples as she explained each of the steps to us that day - using where he lacked in his evidence to support what she was saying. He was in the class and confirmed everything she said that he had done and why it was the wrong thing to do and why he didn't win.
Sorry @MIGeezer because I don't want to poopoo your suggestion. But, it lacks on what it will take to successfully fight the closures.
This is why I thought that the Bronco Safari donation of $5k to Blue Ribbon Coalition was good! I think that this could be something BN needs to consider - because if Ford promotes the Bronco as off-road capable and then there are no trails to take our Bronco on.....

I have my hands in many groups out here: from Blue Ribbon to Citizen's for Balanced use here in Montana to FAFA (forest access for all) in Oregon. We all need to work together across our borders to help keep trials, roads and access open.
Southern Idaho just got a good decision from a BLM issue so keep plugging away folks. Many hands make light-er work.

Localrich

I stand by our statement and actions.

You are correct we did not attend the meeting, in the previous 13 years we have also never attended the meeting(s) and have been told we could not attend in person previously. Now it seems we should have attended this meeting, unfortunately the county did not make this known to us. There was no invite, no email saying here is a zoom if you can't make it in person nothing.

Grand county has made it increasingly more difficult and expensive to host the event. I am also well aware they monitor social media and our statements will be held against us when we apply for a 2025 permit and we do plan to be there in person for the meeting. They are welcome to reach out to discuss why they failed to read or acknowledge the mitigations we put in place to help prevent issues such as altercation with a "soccer mom" or "facility damage" etc. They even said when discussing our event that you can't control everyone. They are right we can't and we had some problems which we addressed as soon as we were made aware. They also misstated the grafiti was done to a petroglyph which it was not and it wasn't during an official trail, even with that we drove out the next weekend and helped clean it up.

I do acknowledge the unfortunate side effect of potentially hurting the businesses in and around Moab financially and I encourage them if they want and are willing to hold the county accountable for denying our intent to apply.

Just want to say I am one that understands what you are saying. Things go by year after year, and then they change one year, at the last minute. And communications can be awful - oh - to bad, so sad attitude from them.
Our club in NM (NM4W) has to lock down their website. Potential members can barely see trail rides and contact info for the trail leaders - mostly because of how much money people, such as SUWA (sorry, not sure if they are still around), have to pay people and rummage through club websites. And, our FB page can only be viewed by members to keep them off our social media.
The amount of misinformation that these "closure" enthusiasts share is amazing! And, you can see a lot of misinformation and assumptions just in this thread. The travel plans will state things that are wrong with the trail and why it should be closed - such as it scares the deer - then you find that they put a deer in a holding and drove 5 ATV's around the holding for 30 minutes - yes, that will scare a deer - but motorized users do not use the trail in that way.
These fights are not easy and it takes all those involved - the enthusiasts, the businesses that benefit from the enthusiasts.....

Most business's support the off road community in Moab. In fact, all the side by side rental companies donate $ 5.00 per rental to the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Obviously bike rental companies will donate to other things and support bike trails, but on the whole, the business community supports the off road user. However the county and city are run by liberals who think the area would be better off with less people visiting. It is the "I am here so nobody else should come" thinking.

Having said that, there are quite a few thoughtless people who visit each year, they cause damage to trails and other things. They modify their vehicles to be loud and then drive them through residential neighborhoods at high speed. As with most things, a few people spoil it for the majority.

Sven

I have my hands in many groups out here: from Blue Ribbon to Citizen's for Balanced use here in Montana to FAFA (forest access for all) in Oregon. We all need to work together across our boarders to help keep trials, roads and access open.
Southern Idaho just got a good decision from a BLM issue so keep plugging away folks. Many hands make light-er work.

If you have Rangers on the BLM or National Forests that "want" motorized users, it can be really easy to work with them. There is a club near Gunnison CO that works with BLM there and been a major player in improving deficiencies in trails, at BLM direction and got BLM to open the trail back up.
But, when then Rangers change and you have to fight it all over again. NM4W is having to do that in Socorro. BLM contacted our club and we opened a lot of trails on BLM land and this place is my happy place - awesome lots of wheeling fun for all - Johnson Hill OHV. Now there is new BLM and they are wanting to close most of the trails. So, we are trying to set up meetings with them, walk the trails and discuss concerns and possible solutions.
New Mexico also has New Mexico Off-Highway Vehicle Association (NMOHVA) and this is a blanket group for all motorized users, but has a lean toward dirt bikes, ATV's, SXS - since this group of motorized users is less likely to have "clubs" and organizations that full size motorized users have.
It just takes a lot of effort and had work. And, if you have been active in any club - that means that only a few people are going to step up and volunteer.
Each and every little thing motorized users do on the trail will either be a negative or a positive for our hobby. There are people watching us!

Darrel

If you have Rangers on the BLM or National Forests that "want" motorized users, it can be really easy to work with them. There is a club near Gunnison CO that works with BLM there and been a major player in improving deficiencies in trails, at BLM direction and got BLM to open the trail back up.
But, when then Rangers change and you have to fight it all over again. NM4W is having to do that in Socorro. BLM contacted our club and we opened a lot of trails on BLM land and this place is my happy place - awesome lots of wheeling fun for all - Johnson Hill OHV. Now there is new BLM and they are wanting to close most of the trails. So, we are trying to set up meetings with them, walk the trails and discuss concerns and possible solutions.
New Mexico also has New Mexico Off-Highway Vehicle Association (NMOHVA) and this is a blanket group for all motorized users, but has a lean toward dirt bikes, ATV's, SXS - since this group of motorized users is less likely to have "clubs" and organizations that full size motorized users have.
It just takes a lot of effort and had work. And, if you have been active in any club - that means that only a few people are going to step up and volunteer.
Each and every little thing motorized users do on the trail will either be a negative or a positive for our hobby. There are people watching us!

Well said!!

BostonBadlands

An idea:
To get a permit to drive on the Cape Cod National Seashore, you must comply with a number of requirements. You must present your vehicle at a Ranger Station where it is checked for capability (e.g. tire size) and equipment (jack, foot-square jack stand, tire gauge, etc.). Then you have to watch a video about beach driving regulations, etiquette, and technique, with special emphasis on ecology and wildlife issues.

Why not set up a similar procedure for trail access on federal trails? Qualify for a permit, pay a (stiff) fee, enjoy the trails responsibly, and use the fees for trail maintenance and enforcement.

The Cape Cod fee is $150. A similar fee (coupled with hefty fines for noncompliance), plus mandatory equipment and education criteria) should cull the herd of irresponsible trail users. I think jerk joyriders on one-day rentals will be less enthusiastic of shelling out $150 (or so) for a season pass when an afternoon's rental already sets them back $300+.

This will hit us, of course, and the once-a-year off-roader who visits Moab for 4-5 days, once a year, will be hurt disproportionately. We all know this is an expensive hobby. But the expansion of our motorsport means more trail traffic, and we'll have to shoulder more of the burden, either by deprivation of trail use, or participating more substantially in the care and protection of the land.

I already pay fees...it is called taxes. If they check your truck good for that, to pay more money to drive on approved public lands, sorry no. Please don't tell me that this is the only way. As I have said before, if we all don't got off our butts, man the phones, call our reps., they will shut it all down. The current BLM head has already said that. Money helps but it takes numbers of people to get involved.

RagnarKon

ps. Careful who you vote for.

Sure you may not like the individual looking to restrict motorized travel on certain trails, but you probably also won't like the guy who is looking to lease the public land to private companies for mineral exploitation. (One of my favorite offroading trails growing up got leased to a copper mining company, and they destroyed nearly a hundred miles of offroad trails so they could get heavy equipment to the mining site. 😑)

Not to mention the mining companies don’t want off-roaders anywhere near their mines. So they close any trail they can, and lobby the BLM to close anything around the mine as well.

BostonBadlands

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/feds-closed-over-300-miles-off-road-trails-in-moab-utah-more-come/

Even though the town of Moab is not responsible, I think off-roaders should boycott Moab. If the business elements scream in pain, and draw attention to what the Feds are doing, maybe something might get done. My take is that an overly ideological, purist (puritanical?) element is ascendant in the environmental movement, a romantic longing to "re-wild" the land. This is the same thinking that wants to blow up dams in the west, which aggravates water shortages.

It's pretty simple....BLM land is public land that belongs to everyone. Not just "everyone with a 4x4 vehicle". Much like a public roadway, you are afforded the PRIVILEGE of using it, with the understanding that you will obey the rules set forth with the privilege. Just like with everything else, bad actors have to ruin it for the rest of us. Do you think we would have speed limits if everyone just drove at a reasonable and prudent speed? No. But there's always gotta be somebody who pushes the envelope. So we set speed limits and chose police officers to enforce the law. If you get pulled over for speeding...you don't get to say "Look what the government is doing to me.". You did it to yourself by choosing to exceed the speed limit. And, while YOU specifically, may not have been one of the bad actors going off trail, leaving trash, etc., the scope of BLM land (247.3 million acres) necessitates that you be put under the same umbrella of 4x4 user. There is simply no way to police that much area and ONLY punish the bad actors. It's unfortunate. It's unfair. But it has nothing to do with what the government or the libruhls are doing to you.

Tricky Dick

There is still an appeal but it was a unanimous rejection by the county.

https://moabsunnews.com/2023/10/19/county-commission-october-17/

Vote accordingly. Eat your local Overlord!

OnX just did an interesting survey. Have you or your club done anything lately to help?

https://www.onxmaps.com/onx-access-initiatives/breaking-trails

FYI…….

This is for anyone who plans to go out to Moab Utah from now and into the future…

I have been in contact with the DNR of Utah and there was some changes at the beginning of this year that you need to be aware of.


*New Adult Education Requirements*

Beginning Jan. 1, 2023, Utah will require all OHV operators to complete the Utah Off-Highway Vehicle Education Course. Operators under the age of 18 shall possess a youth OHV education certificate in order to operate an OHV on public land, road or trail. Operators 18 years of age or older may operate an OHV if they possess an approved adult OHV education certificate.

This Off-Highway Vehicle Certificate is a Lifetime Certificate.

A little added bonus, when you complete the Course, you will be given 2 Months Free of (onX Off-Road Elite)……..

I have posted the Link below!!!

https://secured.utah.gov/utoutdoorrecdirectory/Forms/Page/utoutdoorrecdirectory/utohvcours

Here is some more information about the Course that must be taken to Ride the Trails in Utah.

Upon my conversation with the DNR of Utah, a Trail Permit is not needed when using their trail system, however the “Off-Highway Vehicle Course” is a must to be able to use their trail system…..

https://recreation.utah.gov/off-highway-vehicles/ohv-registration-and-permits/

https://recreation.utah.gov/off-hig...on-and-permits/utah-non-resident-ohv-permits/

BroncOitis

*New Adult Education Requirements*

Beginning Jan. 1, 2023, Utah will require all OHV operators to complete the Utah Off-Highway Vehicle Education Course. Operators under the age of 18 shall possess a youth OHV education certificate in order to operate an OHV on public land, road or trail. Operators 18 years of age or older may operate an OHV if they possess an approved adult OHV education certificate.

There was a lot of discussion about this before this year's Safari and a lot of people believed the course is not required to operate street vehicles offroad. But one of your links does specifically say "street legal".

Tricky Dick

There was a lot of discussion about this before this year's Safari and a lot of people believed the course is not required to operate street vehicles offroad. But one of your links does specifically say "street legal".

I was in contact with the DNR of Utah, and they specifically told me that it is required to do the course to ride their trails…. I’ll see if I can dig up that email that I received from them yesterday!!!

Tricky Dick

There was a lot of discussion about this before this year's Safari and a lot of people believed the course is not required to operate street vehicles offroad. But one of your links does specifically say "street legal".

These E-Mails are the response I got after asking multiple questions about Off-Roading out in Utah…..