4" to 6.5" rear speaker upgrade

Bronco1973

FIngers crossed 🤞 it's at the Dealership. They are charging me $300 if it works or not. I hope they know what they are doing.

Hi, Bronco1973.

Did your dealer end up doing the "flash" for your rear speakers? Did it work? Any noticable difference? I'm considering asking my dealer to do the same so wondering what you think.

RagnarKon

The Forscan changes only impact the ACM (Audio Control Module). The B&O system has its own external DSP, so any changes you make probably won't make much of an impact. But I dont really understand the signal flow with B&O, so I'll have to poke around the wiring diagrams.

That said, 4" speakers really dont produce much audio below the 150-300 Hz range, the diaphram just isnt large enough. So if you removed the high-pass filter but stuck with 4" speakers then you wont get an improvement. The Forscan changes really only are needed if you are installing larger speaker, or you want to control the frequecy with some other component like an external amp/DSP or an RC circuit to (aka: bass blocker).

Hi, RagnarKon.

I'm about to replace my dash and rear pod speakers with JL Audio 4" speakers. I'm debating whether to ask my dealer to do the "flash" or not. It sounds like your view is that if I put in 4", it wouldn't add much. Is that the case even if I put a pretty good JL Audio 4" back there?

Also, I'm wondering if the flash could make things worse under any circumstance, or whether it just would be a neutral at worst case (i.e., a waste of money but not a net negative in terms of sound). Any ideas?

what system do you have - the B&O system or base system? The B&O system doesn't have any way to adjust the rear speaker outputs unfortunately :(

ToddGreen

Hi, RagnarKon.

I'm about to replace my dash and rear pod speakers with JL Audio 4" speakers. I'm debating whether to ask my dealer to do the "flash" or not. It sounds like your view is that if I put in 4", it wouldn't add much. Is that the case even if I put a pretty good JL Audio 4" back there?

Also, I'm wondering if the flash could make things worse under any circumstance, or whether it just would be a neutral at worst case (i.e., a waste of money but not a net negative in terms of sound). Any ideas?

If you are replacing the stock 4" speakers with another set of 4" speakers then the ACM programming won't help you in any way. In my opinion, the only reason to change the ACM configuration is if you replace the rear 4" pods with larger speakers.

If you do decide the change the ACM configuration you probably will need to add bass blockers to the rear 4" pod speakers to block out the lower frequencies that smaller 4" speakers have trouble reproducing.

(And to @Calgecko's point, if you have the B&O system there isn't a good way to change the speaker configuration. But I assume you have the base audio setup.)

RagnarKon

If you are replacing the stock 4" speakers with another set of 4" speakers then the ACM programming won't help you in any way. In my opinion, the only reason to change the ACM configuration is if you replace the rear 4" pods with larger speakers.

If you do decide the change the ACM configuration you probably will need to add bass blockers to the rear 4" pod speakers to block out the lower frequencies that smaller 4" speakers have trouble reproducing.

(And to @Calgecko's point, if you have the B&O system there isn't a good way to change the speaker configuration. But I assume you have the base audio setup.)

Do you guys know whether the factory 6.5” speakers are only woofers (bass/mid-bass) or are they two-way speakers with tweeters?

My sense is that they are woofers only, but I’m not sure because I haven’t exposed them yet.

I’m trying to figure out whether to just replace the two sets of 4” speakers or also swap out the 6.5”. I’m not adding an amp or sub at this time.

I’ve been advised to leave in the factory speakers because a two-way replacement would lack the same bass as the factory speakers without an amp/sub. That seems consistent with reports on this and other forums. But for starters, I’m trying to understand what the factory 6.5” are.

ToddGreen

Do you guys know whether the factory 6.5” speakers are only woofers (bass/mid-bass) or are they two-way speakers with tweeters?

My sense is that they are woofers only, but I’m not sure because I haven’t exposed them yet.

I’m trying to figure out whether to just replace the two sets of 4” speakers or also swap out the 6.5”. I’m not adding an amp or sub at this time.

I’ve been advised to leave in the factory speakers because a two-way replacement would lack the same bass as the factory speakers without an amp/sub. That seems consistent with reports on this and other forums. But for starters, I’m trying to understand what the factory 6.5” are.

The 6.5" kick panel speakers are full-range. BUT the system as a whole is almost setup like a component speaker—the kick panel and the dash speakers share the same channel... with the kick panels providing the lows and mids and the dashboard speakers acting as the high-range/tweeter.

The factory 6.5" speakers are actually pretty solid, and an amplifier should really bring out their full potential. If you had always planned on swapping them out anyway, then by all means go for it. But if you were just trying to make the stock system suck less... I'd do the amplifier first, see where that gets you, and then go from there.

RagnarKon

The 6.5" kick panel speakers are full-range. BUT the system as a whole is almost setup like a component speaker—the kick panel and the dash speakers share the same channel... with the kick panels providing the lows and mids and the dashboard speakers acting as the high-range/tweeter.

The factory 6.5" speakers are actually pretty solid, and an amplifier should really bring out their full potential. If you had always planned on swapping them out anyway, then by all means go for it. But if you were just trying to make the stock system suck less... I'd do the amplifier first, see where that gets you, and then go from there.

Thanks again, RagnarKon.

My initial plan was to swap out all six speakers (I have the base audio system). But an installer at an audio shop recommended just swapping the 4” sets and leaving the factory 6.5”. He thought that, especially without adding an amp, the factory set would get better bass from the system than another pair of two-way 6.5’s.

I was a bit surprised by that, but then I’ve seen from others on the forums that they noticed pretty weak bass from Kicker 6.5 and others that they swapped in there. I think some folks even put back in the factory set. So, perhaps its just the right 6.5 for the factory amp and the way it’s all tuned.

ToddGreen

Thanks again, RagnarKon.

My initial plan was to swap out all six speakers (I have the base audio system). But an installer at an audio shop recommended just swapping the 4” sets and leaving the factory 6.5”. He thought that, especially without adding an amp, the factory set would get better bass from the system than another pair of two-way 6.5’s.

I was a bit surprised by that, but then I’ve seen from others on the forums that they noticed pretty weak bass from Kicker 6.5 and others that they swapped in there. I think some folks even put back in the factory set. So, perhaps its just the right 6.5 for the factory amp and the way it’s all tuned.

Yeah I agree with that installer. There is a “balance” you have to find with speakers. Nicer/more expensive speakers do sound better, but they’re also generally less power efficient and therefore require a better amplifier to drive them.

Also depends on the speaker itself. Just looking at Kicker speakers as an example…

• The DS series are designed to be easy to drive by any amplifier and are can act as a drop-in replacement for any stock audio system. But they don’t sound great—better than many stock speakers, but not great.
• The CS series is kind of in the middle (and probably the most common choice to upgrade to). They’ll work for many stock audio systems, but you’ll find that you may have turn up the volume knob a little bit more than you did in the past and doesn’t quite sound “full”.
• The KS series is closer to a higher-end setup. You can hook them up to a factory amp and they’ll produce audio, but you’re going to be disappointed without an amp.

(After that your into Kicker’s high-end speakers and you’re really just needlessly burning money on speakers unless you pair them with an adequate amplifier.)

Obviously just Kicker, but most car audio manufacturers have a similar “tiered” system to their speaker lineup.

RagnarKon

Yeah I agree with that installer. There is a “balance” you have to find with speakers. Nicer/more expensive speakers do sound better, but they’re also generally less power efficient and therefore require a better amplifier to drive them.

Also depends on the speaker itself. Just looking at Kicker speakers as an example…

• The DS series are designed to be easy to drive by any amplifier and are can act as a drop-in replacement for any stock audio system. But they don’t sound great—better than many stock speakers, but not great.
• The CS series is kind of in the middle (and probably the most common choice to upgrade to). They’ll work for many stock audio systems, but you’ll find that you may have turn up the volume knob a little bit more than you did in the past and doesn’t quite sound “full”.
• The KS series is closer to a higher-end setup. You can hook them up to a factory amp and they’ll produce audio, but you’re going to be disappointed without an amp.

(After that your into Kicker’s high-end speakers and you’re really just needlessly burning money on speakers unless you pair them with an adequate amplifier.)

Obviously just Kicker, but most car audio manufacturers have a similar “tiered” system to their speaker lineup.

I replaced all 6 of mine with KS series, bass blockers in the dash and rear pods and did the forscan “unlock” for the rears. Sound quality is definitely better than the stock but you do have to crank the volume to get enough power to the speakers for them to sound balanced. Bass is still pretty horrible since it’s only coming from the front kick panels. Kicker key amp is next on my audio list probably with a sub at first and later replacing the rear 4” with 6.5. Still don’t understand why they didn’t do that at the factory.

Kicker Key amp with plug n play kit 11 is the schitt. I know I did it. You won't have to cut or splice a single wire.
Put it under the drivers side steering wheel brace it fits like it was designed to go there.
To adjust gain or get to the amp after installation just fold down the hinged plastic panel under the steering wheel.
The amp turns on and off by itself with the wiring kit.

dover157

I replaced all 6 of mine with KS series, bass blockers in the dash and rear pods and did the forscan “unlock” for the rears. Sound quality is definitely better than the stock but you do have to crank the volume to get enough power to the speakers for them to sound balanced. Bass is still pretty horrible since it’s only coming from the front kick panels. Kicker key amp is next on my audio list probably with a sub at first and later replacing the rear 4” with 6.5. Still don’t understand why they didn’t do that at the factory.

Sounds like we’re headed down the same path… although I skipped the bass blockers in the rear pods. Didn’t make sense to me to remove the high-pass filter in Forscan and then add it back with bass blockers, so I just left on the high-pass filter the factory ACM was providing.

The 4” definitely sound better, but I’d be lying if I said I noticed a big change out of the kick panels.

Agree with @Nminus1 … those wiring harness kits provided by a few companies (PlugNPlay Kits, Hoel Wiring, etc.) are awesome. I got a Kicker Key 200.4 and 500.1 sitting in a box ready to go… just waiting for it to stop raining.

RagnarKon

Sounds like we’re headed down the same path… although I skipped the bass blockers in the rear pods. Didn’t make sense to me to remove the high-pass filter in Forscan and then add it back with bass blockers, so I just left on the high-pass filter the factory ACM was providing.

The 4” definitely sound better, but I’d be lying if I said I noticed a big change out of the kick panels.

Agree with @Nminus1 … those wiring harness kits provided by a few companies (PlugNPlay Kits, Hoel Wiring, etc.) are awesome. I got a Kicker Key 200.4 and 500.1 sitting in a box ready to go… just waiting for it to stop raining.

The Kicker Key amps are amazing! The compact size, easy wiring, and easy auto tuning...they really are a no brainer.

Installed Mabett rear pods with CS65 6.5 100W Kicker speakers today. With the Kicker 200.4 amp you just adjust the gain for the rear 2 channels and the rear speakers wake right up. Big Difference! Adjust gain at mid to high volume until you see the clip light come on then back down. No brainer

Nminus1

Installed Mabett rear pods with CS65 6.5 100W Kicker speakers today. With the Kicker 200.4 amp you just adjust the gain for the rear 2 channels and the rear speakers wake right up. Big Difference! Adjust gain at mid to high volume until you see the clip light come on then back down. No brainer

Nice! May have to do that ultimately.

I also started my own upgrade (video 1, 2, 3) with only the subwoofer to go. We’ll see how it sounds once I get the subwoofer in there… but I may ultimately copy you and install the Mabett pods and a set of 6.5” speakers.

Now that I was able to turn the volume input up to the rears (via the gain on the 200.4 amp) I was thinking of adding the Kicker 10" low profile powered sub (I already bought but did not install) in the back fed from the either of the rear speakers.
Before I had the gain for the rear channel very low, because the 4" speakers were starting to clip (as indicated on the amp via the LED) at even a medium volume. Now I turned it up to about 50% and the 6.5s handle the gain much better without any clipping, and the sound is MUCH better including bass.

2022 Ford Bronco install
Arc audio X2 6.2 Component (Front)
Arc audio X2 602 Coaxial (Rear)
(SSV WORKS 6.5 Pods)
Kicker Key 200.4 (Plug n Play Kit 13)
RGBW Rock lights 8 Pack (Aux 1)

***For everyone who is talking about the FORScan to receive “Bass” to the rear speakers. If you are using a Kicker Key, you do not need the scan/flash tune. Set the Fade to the OFF position to utilize the fronts full range signal for the rear. You will achieve a better end result. The kicker key alone is supposed to fix/improve the factory output, but it can only do so much with a terrible output from the factory radio. Utilize a good frequency band(Full Range). If you want good sound, you WILL loose the ability to fade front to rear on your radio. You will only have Left to Right. If you do need to adjust it front to back, you will only be able to do so from the Kicker Key amp1 (Front) and amp2 (Rear).

When utilizing a subwoofer I do recommend setting the HI PASS to 60hz.
This will eliminate any distortion or output drops. Additional the amp will be sending frequencies that are easy for your mids and and highs to handle, resulting in larger output (LOUD)

Very cool, you've got me thinking......I love my tunes.

So based on Bradens post I tried turning the position 2 dip switch, (the fade) to off on the 200.4 amp. WOW! Really bad. Front 4" dash speakers immediately started distorting even under low to medium volume. Turned it back on. Tweeked the gain again, I am at about 1/2 for the rear channel, and 1/4 for the fronts without clipping.
BTW I am running 100W Infinity front dash speakers with 300 ohm bass blockers. Rear are new 6.5 kickers in Mabett pods. I think I have the system tuned as best as it can be without more hardware upgrades. I still have my Kicker 10" powered sub woofer to install, once I figure out the 2 channel feed either via a plug n play kit or ??
See pic for diagram of 200.4 amp dip switches.

Nminus1

So based on Bradens post I tried turning the position 2 dip switch, (the fade) to off on the 200.4 amp. WOW! Really bad. Front 4" dash speakers immediately started distorting even under low to medium volume. Turned it back on. Tweeked the gain again, I am at about 1/2 for the rear channel, and 1/4 for the fronts without clipping.
BTW I am running 100W Infinity front dash speakers with 300 ohm bass blockers. Rear are new 6.5 kickers in Mabett pods. I think I have the system tuned as best as it can be without more hardware upgrades. I still have my Kicker 10" powered sub woofer to install, once I figure out the 2 channel feed either via a plug n play kit or ??
See pic for diagram of 200.4 amp dip switches.

Really bad ? Disconnect the amplifier to reset it. Drop the gains down. You’ll need to retune it. (Yes with the microphone too) You can not drop the switch with it plugged in and a previous tune saved to the kicker key. You will have to start from the beginning like it’s never been tuned before. If you have a sub. Place the hi pass to 60 and see how much volume you get. You might like that more.

Just to be clear the Fader is used if you are only using 2 inputs instead of 4 from the factory system. It doesn’t do anything beyond that.

The only real benefit to this approach is you do not have to mess around with Forscan, because the front two channels do not have a factory high-pass filter applied. Beyond that, serves no purpose. As @Bradenmclaughlin18 mentioned, you lose the ability to fade to the front/rear on the Sync screen because the Kicker key is only using two inputs rather than all four.

In my opinion… costs less than $50 to get up and running with Forscan, and you can do a ton of stuff with it beyond disabling the factory EQ. So makes more sense to go the Forscan route. But some people have warranty concerns when it comes to Forscan, so I can see the argument against it.