Procal Tune voids Ford Extended Warranty?

raqball

Has your friend checked with any other dealerships? It might just be that the one dealership internally fagged it, perhaps inappropriately?

Also, I know there is a user on Bronco6G who sells a TON of extended warranties for Granger over on that forum. Maybe reach out to him and ask for clarification? He sounds very knowledgable on the extended warranties..

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/members/zach-granger.13805/

Might wanna fix the typo in the first sentence....

TechnicalDisaster

Might wanna fix the typo in the first sentence....

Ah, I see the typo now.. Fixed.

I just got off the phone with the CRC and I got what I feel is a credible answer. Vehicles that are performance tuned with the Procal Tuner are not eligible for the Ford Extended Service Plan. The tune voids the entire contract.

When questioned, she also went on to say that Ford Dealers should not sell ESPs with a new vehicle that has the tune installed. It is the Dealers responsibility to inspect new vehicles and ensure they are eligible for the ESP. A tune makes it ineligible.

TechnicalDisaster

The tune voids the entire contract.

That's wild. I would expect drivetrain, but not everything.

TechnicalDisaster

I just got off the phone with the CRC and I got what I feel is a credible answer. Vehicles that are performance tuned with the Procal Tuner are not eligible for the Ford Extended Service Plan. The tune voids the entire contract.

When questioned, she also went on to say that Ford Dealers should not sell ESPs with a new vehicle that has the tune installed. It is the Dealers responsibility to inspect new vehicles and ensure they are eligible for the ESP. A tune makes it ineligible.

If this is the case, then Ford needs to EXPLICITLY state that the purchase of the said tune will void any pre-purchased ESP. And I don't think they have done that.

Johnny Mo

If this is the case, then Ford needs to EXPLICITLY state that the purchase of the said tune will void any pre-purchased ESP. And I don't think they have done that.

That’s why I feel entitled to a refund for the ProCal tune even though it is listed as a “nonrefundable item.” They did not make this disclosure to me. I have 4 different Ford employees who have told me not to install the tune. 2 from the CRC, 1 from the warranty claims division, and 1 from the dealership. It boggles my mind that employees from one division discourage me from buying parts from another division, but here we are.

raqball

I am still confused about the tune warranty. There has to be a legal reason as to why it get's it's own 3/36.. My guess it that it heavily modifies the basic 3/36 and also would modify the 5/60..

@TechnicalDisaster already posted the relevant statement in the warranty paperwork. But anyway...

The factory warranties only covers unmodified factory components. Once you install a tune, the engine (and anything else the tune modifies) is no longer an unmodified factory component. And therefore the factory warranty no longer applies to that component. That is why there is a separate Ford Performance warranty specifically for the tune—it covers the components that the factory warranty no longer covers.

ESP also only covers unmodified factory components. My understanding is that the Ford Performance Tune doesn't outright void ESP (although apparently that's still up in the air). So if... say... your SYNC infotainment system dies and you had PremiumCARE, ESP will still cover you. But if your engine dies, it may not be covered by ESP since the engine's factory behavior was altered by the tune.

The same is true for any aftermarket component, as you mentioned. Any issue caused by or related to aftermarket components aren't covered by warranty. (But sometimes those aftermarket components have their own warranty.)

RagnarKon

@TechnicalDisaster already posted the relevant statement in the warranty paperwork. But anyway...

The factory warranties only covers unmodified factory components. Once you install a tune, the engine (and anything else the tune modifies) is no longer an unmodified factory component. And therefore the factory warranty no longer applies to that component. That is why there is a separate Ford Performance warranty specifically for the tune—it covers the components that the factory warranty no longer covers.

ESP also only covers unmodified factory components. My understanding is that the Ford Performance Tune doesn't outright void ESP (although apparently that's still up in the air). So if... say... your SYNC infotainment system dies and you had PremiumCARE, ESP will still cover you. But if your engine dies, it may not be covered by ESP since the engine's factory behavior was altered by the tune.

The same is true for any aftermarket component, as you mentioned. Any issue caused by or related to aftermarket components aren't covered by warranty. (But sometimes those aftermarket components have their own warranty.)

This is just my opinion based on what I was told, but it sounds like there is a type/class/category of vehicle that Ford ESP does not cover in any way. They described it as a Ford Performance vehicle with a major engine modification, and that includes any engine tune. So I think you’re half right. The ESP covers Ford parts and nothing you replace with aftermarket parts, But if you have made specific engine modifications, your vehicle is ineligible for the whole warranty.

This is consistent with with the language they used to qualify a vehicle for the ESP warranty. Dealers are not supposed to sell the ESP to vehicles that can’t qualify for it.

Alright I dug up my paperwork for ESP and pasted it below so we can all speculate together. The paperwork is from my wife's Escape, as I don't have the ESP paperwork for my Bronco handy (don't even remember if I got ESP tbh). But I am fairly confident it's the same, if it's not... someone yell at me.

I'm guessing the folks that @TechnicalDisaster are talking to are reading bullet (v), as it says the following:

...vehicles used for competitive driving/racing/off-road use, all performance modified vehicles (including Hennessey), Fuel cell vehicles...

But anyway... the full section below...

WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS AGREEMENT: Unless stated otherwise (see STATE SPECIFIC provisions for additional exclusions or changes) the following are excluded from coverage:​

a) Repairs covered by manufacturer recalls, insurance or in-force warranty or warranty provided by an insolvent manufacturer or insurer, even if repair coverage has been denied;​

b) Repairs to any engine, transmission and final drive components for damages caused by an after-market (non-factory installed) part including but not limited to: turbocharger, supercharger, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquid Propane Gas (LPG), Nitrous Oxide fuel system modification or any other performance enhancing powertrain components including but not limited to racing parts or accessories;​

c) Repairs caused by loss of lubricants or fluids or contamination of oil, fluids or fuel. Repairs caused by continued operation of the vehicle after loss of lubricant or fluids or contamination of oil, fluids or fuel;​

d) Repairs caused by: (1) improper or unauthorized service procedures, collisions or other physical damage to the Vehicle; (2) damage caused by a foreign object; (3) unreasonable use (including driving over curbs, overloading, or using the Vehicle as a stationary power source); (4) continued use with an obvious failure; (5) damage from fire or explosions, road hazards, other casualty losses; or (6) losses due to negligence, including racing;​

e) Failures caused by: (1) alterations or modifications of the Vehicle, including the body, chassis, or electronic components, after the Vehicle leaves the control of the manufacturer (2) any part designated for “off road only’’ that is not installed by the manufacturer, including, but not limited to, lift kits, oversized tires, roll bars, and performance enhancing powertrain components; (3) tampering with the Vehicle or the emissions system and components; (4) installation or use of any mechanical or electrical part not approved, certified or authorized by the Vehicle’s manufacturer or any Failure caused by after-market (non-factory approved) PCM reprogramming;​

f) All repairs that are required due to a condition that existed prior to the Signature Date of this Agreement;​

g) Repairs or services caused by lack of required or recommended maintenance, per the manufacturer’s guidelines;​

h) Scheduled Maintenance Services;​

i) Repairs needed to a covered part caused by the Failure of a non-covered part;​

j) Repairs to the Vehicle if the odometer is altered, broken, repaired or replaced so that We cannot determine the actual mileage on the Vehicle;​

k) Repairs to the Vehicle necessary due to operation outside of the United States, Guam, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, or Canada;​

l) Loss of use of the Vehicle, loss of income, special or consequential damages, and personal expenses, such as motels,​

food, gas and mileage (except as provided by Roadside Assistance);​

m) Rental vehicle charges or fees such as mileage charges, drop-off fees, insurance, or gasoline;​

n) Shop supplies and disposal of environmental wastes from the Vehicle or fuel used during the repair of Your Vehicle or storage fees;​

o) Electrical failures on incandescent bulbs, halogen bulbs, High Intensity Discharge (HID) and LED lamp assemblies (except when Interior/Exterior Lighting Option is purchased);​

p) Service adjustments and cleaning/lubricating procedures, fixed (non-moving) body parts, bumpers, glass, moldings, ornamentation, paint, rust, sheet metal, structural underbody framework, side and rear view mirrors (glass and housing), rattles/squeaks/wind noise/odors/water leaks, tires, tune-ups, wheel balancing, wheel alignment, fogging/moisture of lamp assemblies, weather strips, wheels, wheel studs, wheel covers, convertible top and bow, fabric, liners, fasteners, carpets, dash pad, knobs, trim, upholstery, physical damage or cosmetic issues;​

q) Damage caused by the environment and pollution, including airborne fallout, corrosion, chemicals, debris, tree sap, salt, hail, windstorm, lightning, freezing, flooding, earthquake, snow or ice;​

r) Damage caused by theft, vandalism, terrorism, riot or acts of war;​

s) All Wear Items are excluded except when LeaseCARE is purchased;​

t) Batteries of all types and cables, brakes (front hub, drums, shoes, linings, disc rotors, pads), exhaust system (includes catalytic converter), and software upgrades;​

u) Costs or expenses of Failures not covered by this Agreement including teardown, rental expense, inspection or diagnosis;​

v) The following vehicles/manufacturers and/or usage is not covered by this Agreement: Alpha Romeo, Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Ferrari, Fisker, Hummer, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lotus, Maserati, Maybach, McLaren, Porsche, Rolls Royce, Saab, Suzuki, Tesla and Wheego. Acura: NSX: Audi: A8, A8 L, R8, R9, R20, RS6, RS7, RS Q8, S8, SQ7 and SQ8; BMW: 6 series, 7 series, 8 series, i8, M series, Alpina, and Z8; Cadillac: V series, and XLR; Chevrolet: Camaro ZL1, Corvette 427, Corvette Z06, and Corvette ZR1; Ford: Foose F-150, GT, Mustang All Roush Performance Modified Vehicles (except Stage 1 and Stage 2), Shelby GT500KR, GTS, Supersnake, Tonka and any other Shelby Performance Modified Vehicles, all Saleen modified vehicles, and Transit Connect Electric; Honda: Civic Natural Gas and Fuel Cell X Clarity; Jaguar: XJ series and XK series; Lexus: F, GS-F, LF-A and RC F; Mercedes-Benz: AMG, CL Class, EQC, , Kompressor, S Class, SL Class, and SLR Class; Nissan: GT-R; and Volkswagen: Phaeton and any model with a W12 engine, taxis, vehicles used for competitive driving/racing/off-road use, all performance modified vehicles (including Hennessey), Fuel cell vehicles, 4X2 equipped vehicles modified with 4X4 AWD capabilities and incomplete vehicles (e.g. chassis cabs, cutaways, stripped chassis);​

w) Branded Vehicles or any vehicle that does not have a valid or recognizable VIN, or the New Vehicle Limited Warranty is voided, in whole or part by the manufacturer;​

x) Vehicles manufactured for sale outside the United States, or Canada;​

y) Used Mechanical Plans and Powertrain Wrap Plans exclude all emergency vehicles (fire/ambulance), all police vehicles, limousines, livery, shuttles, and tow trucks;​

z) Coil-over shock sometimes defined as a strut, unless MacPherson style suspension component.​

RagnarKon

Alright I dug up my paperwork for ESP and pasted it below so we can all speculate together. The paperwork is from my wife's Escape, as I don't have ESP on my Bronco. But I am fairly confident it's the same.

I'm guessing the sticking point is under bullet (v), as it says the following:


But anyway... the full section below...

Thank you for posting this! I think you are correct. Section V excludes performance modified vehicles and I think this is what each of the CRC reps were referencing.

TechnicalDisaster

Might wanna fix the typo in the first sentence....

Second sentence...

ressig1

Second sentence...

lol

I was thinking also part b would be be in play where they were referring to any part not installed at the factory. So, what's to do? Do those folks who bought the ESP at the same time as they bought their Bronco, paid cash, and then later added the performance tune? I agree with the above, the fact that Ford doesn't disclose that when you buy the Tune that it will void your ESP warrantee seems kind of slimy to me.

JoergH

I was thinking also part b would be be in play where they were referring to any part not installed at the factory. So, what's to do? Do those folks who bought the ESP at the same time as they bought their Bronco, paid cash, and then later added the performance tune? I agree with the above, the fact that Ford doesn't disclose that when you buy the Tune that it will void your ESP warrantee seems kind of slimy to me.

The tune warranty clearly states it reduces the factory warranty. To assume it doesn’t reduce an ESP is wishful thinking at best.

RagnarKon

The following vehicles/manufacturers and/or usage is not covered by this Agreement:

vehicles used for competitive driving/racing/off-road use, all performance modified vehicles (including Hennessey), Fuel cell vehicles...

Lol at the bold.. It's a Bronco unless they expect everyone purchasing one to use it as a mall crawler.. I am not hating on Ford for that, as I believe Jeep's have similar lingo (maybe? - probably?) with their warranties and extended plans.

It does not say damage directly caused by off-roading (which I would understand) it says off-road use.. So based on that, I assume they can deny warranty for a legit claim, that was not a direct result of off-roading, if it's obvious it has been taken off-road?

So even a stock Bronco can be denied a warranty claim if they say it's been taken off road?

Sorry for my ignorance as I've always heavily modified my off-road vehicles and I've never purchased a extended warranty..

Having owned several Jeeps in past, and ya know, with their reliability being crap, I've had warranty claims, even on heavily modified Wrangler's. I've never had an issue with a warranty claim being denied just because it was taken off-road. Denied because of a modification? Sure but never because it was simply taken off-road..

These extended warranties, IMO, are complete scams and money makers for them.. I'm not hating on anyone who purchases one, as I guess they do offer piece of mind, but if anyone plans on modifying their Bronco or taking it off road it's probably best to pass on them..

Hi all - I’m new to these parts.

I’m one month into my new 25 Badlands Sasquatch Lux and loving it. We’ve hit a few trails in the Colorado rockies and spent yesterday in Medicine Bow National Park in WY. Given I’m ready to schedule my Ford tune to be installed at a local Denver dealer in two weeks (just before my Off Roadeo in Moab), this thread caught my eye.

I am not a lawyer (IANAL), but wanted to walk through each section for myself. If you have ever spent time understanding insurance technicalities (which is what the warranties are and contain) you become familiar with the concepts of inclusions and exclusions.

Please challenge anything - I’m just trying to determine if I should cancel my $1.8k ESP and get a refund. I’m getting the tune :)

WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS AGREEMENT: Unless stated otherwise (see STATE SPECIFIC provisions for additional exclusions or changes) the following are excluded from coverage:
a) Repairs covered by manufacturer recalls, insurance or in-force warranty or warranty provided by an insolvent manufacturer or insurer, even if repair coverage has been denied;

N/A

b) Repairs to any engine, transmission and final drive components for damages caused by an after-market (non-factory installed) part including but not limited to: turbocharger, supercharger, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), Liquid Propane Gas (LPG), Nitrous Oxide fuel system modification or any other performance enhancing powertrain components including but not limited to racing parts or accessories;

NOTE: after-market (non-factory installed) part

Ford markets the tune as a “calibration”, not a part. IANAL, but assume this would be defensible in a class action. As most have indicated not likely to be considered at the individual/dealer level. Imagine that argument...

c) Repairs caused by loss of lubricants or fluids or contamination of oil, fluids or fuel. Repairs caused by continued operation of the vehicle after loss of lubricant or fluids or contamination of oil, fluids or fuel;
d) Repairs caused by:
(1) improper or unauthorized service procedures, collisions or other physical damage to the Vehicle;
(2) damage caused by a foreign object;
(3) unreasonable use (including driving over curbs, overloading, or using the Vehicle as a stationary power source);
(4) continued use with an obvious failure;
(5) damage from fire or explosions, road hazards, other casualty losses;
or (6) losses due to negligence, including racing;

N/A

e) Failures caused by:
(1) alterations or modifications of the Vehicle, including the body, chassis, or electronic components, after the Vehicle leaves the control of the manufacturer

"Electronic componenents" might hit the threshold. However, note the inclusions and exclusions to this point. This one is very vague.

(2) any part designated for “off road only’’ that is not installed by the manufacturer, including, but not limited to, lift kits, oversized tires, roll bars, and performance enhancing powertrain components;

Similar to above, does “performance enhancing components” directly translate to “calibration”. It is reasonable to expect that “components” technically are physical parts?

(3) tampering with the Vehicle or the emissions system and components; (4) installation or use of any mechanical or electrical part not approved, certified or authorized by the Vehicle’s manufacturer or any Failure caused by after-market (non-factory approved) PCM reprogramming;

“Non-factory approved” - this is what others have noted as the Ford tune being considered “aftermarket”. Is there a formal definition documented of “Non-factory approved” when it is marketed and sold via the Ford Brand? I’ve seen comments on other enthusiast sites for ecoboost tuning and haven’t come across someone saying they were denied. Most long time contributors also note this.

As many of commented, if there was a failure due to the tune and the dealer who installed the tune tried to deny a claim it would negatively impact their local brand. Ford can stand behind the technical verbiage all they want, but the local dealer is subject to local and vocal public feedback...

f) All repairs that are required due to a condition that existed prior to the Signature Date of this Agreement;
g) Repairs or services caused by lack of required or recommended maintenance, per the manufacturer’s guidelines;
h) Scheduled Maintenance Services;
i) Repairs needed to a covered part caused by the Failure of a non-covered part;
j) Repairs to the Vehicle if the odometer is altered, broken, repaired or replaced so that We cannot determine the actual mileage on the Vehicle;
k) Repairs to the Vehicle necessary due to operation outside of the United States, Guam, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, or Canada;
l) Loss of use of the Vehicle, loss of income, special or consequential damages, and personal expenses, such as motels,
food, gas and mileage (except as provided by Roadside Assistance);
m) Rental vehicle charges or fees such as mileage charges, drop-off fees, insurance, or gasoline;
n) Shop supplies and disposal of environmental wastes from the Vehicle or fuel used during the repair of Your Vehicle or storage fees;
o) Electrical failures on incandescent bulbs, halogen bulbs, High Intensity Discharge (HID) and LED lamp assemblies (except when Interior/Exterior Lighting Option is purchased);
p) Service adjustments and cleaning/lubricating procedures, fixed (non-moving) body parts, bumpers, glass, moldings, ornamentation, paint, rust, sheet metal, structural underbody framework, side and rear view mirrors (glass and housing), rattles/squeaks/wind noise/odors/water leaks, tires, tune-ups, wheel balancing, wheel alignment, fogging/moisture of lamp assemblies, weather strips, wheels, wheel studs, wheel covers, convertible top and bow, fabric, liners, fasteners, carpets, dash pad, knobs, trim, upholstery, physical damage or cosmetic issues;
q) Damage caused by the environment and pollution, including airborne fallout, corrosion, chemicals, debris, tree sap, salt, hail, windstorm, lightning, freezing, flooding, earthquake, snow or ice;
r) Damage caused by theft, vandalism, terrorism, riot or acts of war;
s) All Wear Items are excluded except when LeaseCARE is purchased;
t) Batteries of all types and cables, brakes (front hub, drums, shoes, linings, disc rotors, pads), exhaust system (includes catalytic converter), and software upgrades;
u) Costs or expenses of Failures not covered by this Agreement including teardown, rental expense, inspection or diagnosis;

N/A

v) The following vehicles/manufacturers and/or usage is not covered by this Agreement: Alpha Romeo, Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Ferrari, Fisker, Hummer, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lotus, Maserati, Maybach, McLaren, Porsche, Rolls Royce, Saab, Suzuki, Tesla and Wheego. Acura: NSX: Audi: A8, A8 L, R8, R9, R20, RS6, RS7, RS Q8, S8, SQ7 and SQ8; BMW: 6 series, 7 series, 8 series, i8, M series, Alpina, and Z8; Cadillac: V series, and XLR; Chevrolet: Camaro ZL1, Corvette 427, Corvette Z06, and Corvette ZR1; Ford: Foose F-150, GT, Mustang All Roush Performance Modified Vehicles (except Stage 1 and Stage 2), Shelby GT500KR, GTS, Supersnake, Tonka and any other Shelby Performance Modified Vehicles, all Saleen modified vehicles, and Transit Connect Electric; Honda: Civic Natural Gas and Fuel Cell X Clarity; Jaguar: XJ series and XK series; Lexus: F, GS-F, LF-A and RC F; Mercedes-Benz: AMG, CL Class, EQC, , Kompressor, S Class, SL Class, and SLR Class; Nissan: GT-R; and Volkswagen: Phaeton and any model with a W12 engine, taxis, vehicles used for competitive driving/racing/off-road use, all performance modified vehicles (including Hennessey), Fuel cell vehicles, 4X2 equipped vehicles modified with 4X4 AWD capabilities and incomplete vehicles (e.g. chassis cabs, cutaways, stripped chassis);

Note the specific exclusions here by manufacturer and model, with the absence of anything Bronco. Also, given the breadth of exclusions this is likely a common guarantor, no? :)

Ford specific exclusions:
“Ford Foose F-150, GT, Mustang All Roush Performance Modified Vehicles (except Stage 1 and Stage 2), Shelby GT500KR, GTS, Supersnake, Tonka and any other Shelby Performance Modified Vehicles, all Saleen modified vehicles, and Transit Connect Electric;”

No exclusion for "Ford Performance"...

I’m traveling but will check my Bronco ESP for the same language to see if it has been updated.

w) Branded Vehicles or any vehicle that does not have a valid or recognizable VIN, or the New Vehicle Limited Warranty is voided, in whole or part by the manufacturer;
x) Vehicles manufactured for sale outside the United States, or Canada;
y) Used Mechanical Plans and Powertrain Wrap Plans exclude all emergency vehicles (fire/ambulance), all police vehicles, limousines, livery, shuttles, and tow trucks;
z) Coil-over shock sometimes defined as a strut, unless MacPherson style suspension component.

N/A

I wonder if this whole thing is why I can't select my selling dealer for the tune install from Ford's site - they don't want to risk it. But there are multiple others in the Denver metro that will. I'll call a couple of them next week and report back.

I hope this formats ok - if not I'll edit.

Just got the 74Weld kit on my Bronco..

Darkyy

Just got the 74Weld kit on my Bronco..

Nice! What did you get? I have their stage 1 kit in mine..

https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/stage-1-bronco-steering-cap-and-bushing-kit/

raqball

Nice! What did you get? I have their stage 1 kit in mine..

https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/stage-1-bronco-steering-cap-and-bushing-kit/

I got the Stage 2 Kit