Ford and CATL

WildsheepGS4

I guess I need to put the blue oval glasses on and drink the ford marketing pup kook aid.

I’m glad I outright own all my ford vehicles and I don’t feel the need to live thru the blue oval marketing machine. That’s one advantage to not getting involved with ford financing or any vehicle payments. They don’t own you.

I guess the right thing to do is to wake up every morning drink the Jim Farley koolaid, put the blue oval glasses on as I walk out the door and convince myself that no matter what the blue oval does ( even though I know it’s not right) it is the gospel and go to the ford church every Sunday. And I also need to remember to hold my right arm at head level as I leave my house doing a ford salute.

Sounds good to me.

WildsheepGS4

I guess I need to put the blue oval glasses on and drink the ford marketing pup kook aid.

I’m glad I outright own all my ford vehicles and I don’t feel the need to live thru the blue oval marketing machine. That’s one advantage to not getting involved with ford financing or any vehicle payments. They don’t own you.

I guess the right thing to do is to wake up every morning drink the Jim Farley koolaid, put the blue oval glasses on as I walk out the door and convince myself that no matter what the blue oval does ( even though I know it’s not right) it is the gospel and go to the ford church every Sunday. And I also need to remember to hold my right arm at head level as I leave my house doing a ford salute.

Sounds good to me.

WildsheepGS4

So what you are saying is that all the 10 speed transmissions in the broncos and F 150’s are built in china and then shipped over to the United States and put into those vehicles ?

Bluestreak57

Businesses are in business to make a profit, and since at least the end of WWII countries have all moved toward a more global economy… other countries manufacture stuff we don’t want built here, and we tend to export our tech and design (legally and otherwise)…

Ford has been an international player for many years, and will continue to be.

RagnarKon

I challenge you to find a EV vehicle manufacturer today that is NOT working directly with a Chinese company or a foreign company that this in-turn working with a Chinese company. Even LG—the largest non-Chinese headquartered EV battery manufacturer in the world—sources many of its components, raw materials, manufacturing equipment, and/or labor from China.

I'll fully admit I am a life-long Ford owner and a big Ford stock owner (not super impressed with Farley by the way). I'm about the closest thing to a Ford fan boy as you can get short of getting Ford tattoos plastered on my body. But this isn't a Ford problem. It's a country-wide issue across multiple industries.

Perhaps you feel like it is drinking the Ford kool-aid, but it's ultimately I'm just being realistic about the current state of the world. If I get mad at Ford for working with a Chinese company, then I also will have to get mad at every other manufacturer around the world that mass produces vehicle. Anything mass produced is linked to Asia in some way, shape, or form.

RagnarKon

I challenge you to find a EV vehicle manufacturer today that is NOT working directly with a Chinese company or a foreign company that this in-turn working with a Chinese company. Even LG—the largest non-Chinese headquartered EV battery manufacturer in the world—sources many of its components, raw materials, manufacturing equipment, and/or labor from China.

I'll fully admit I am a life-long Ford owner and a big Ford stock owner (not super impressed with Farley by the way). I'm about the closest thing to a Ford fan boy as you can get short of getting Ford tattoos plastered on my body. But this isn't a Ford problem. It's a country-wide issue across multiple industries.

Perhaps you feel like it is drinking the Ford kool-aid, but it's ultimately I'm just being realistic about the current state of the world. If I get mad at Ford for working with a Chinese company, then I also will have to get mad at every other manufacturer around the world that mass produces vehicle. Anything mass produced is linked to Asia in some way, shape, or form.

Bluestreak57

Businesses are in business to make a profit, and since at least the end of WWII countries have all moved toward a more global economy… other countries manufacture stuff we don’t want built here, and we tend to export our tech and design (legally and otherwise)…

Ford has been an international player for many years, and will continue to be.

Rydfree

The irony of someone not wanting to drink the Ford koolaid but brags about owning 4 of their most expensive vehicles.
If you know it's not right then sell or shut up.

RagnarKon

I challenge you to find a EV vehicle manufacturer today that is NOT working directly with a Chinese company or a foreign company that this in-turn working with a Chinese company. Even LG—the largest non-Chinese headquartered EV battery manufacturer in the world—sources many of its components, raw materials, manufacturing equipment, and/or labor from China.

I'll fully admit I am a life-long Ford owner and a big Ford stock owner (not super impressed with Farley by the way). I'm about the closest thing to a Ford fan boy as you can get short of getting Ford tattoos plastered on my body. But this isn't a Ford problem. It's a country-wide issue across multiple industries.

Perhaps you feel like it is drinking the Ford kool-aid, but it's ultimately I'm just being realistic about the current state of the world. If I get mad at Ford for working with a Chinese company, then I also will have to get mad at every other manufacturer around the world that mass produces vehicle. Anything mass produced is linked to Asia in some way, shape, or form.

WildsheepGS4

Does this bother anyone ?

I wont get into the details of this partnership, you can do your own research, but I'm just curious if this partnership bothers any ford owners or potential Ford owners. It's been covered in detail.

Right now Ford Motor Company is losing approximately $ 35,000.00 per every EV vehicle produced, which equates to approximately 4.5 billion per year. Ford gas powered vehicle division is doing reasonably well and making a profit, aside from being the recall leader the past 2 years. Ford Motor Company is has also taken the largest amount of subsidy / Bailout money from the United States government to date for EV development , 3 times more than General Motors. Lets be honest , the United States tax payer and the ford customers purchasing VERY EXPENSIVE gas powered trucks, suvs, and mustangs are basically subsidizing the Ford / CATL deal in Marshall , Michigan. What concerns me is that in February Ford CEO Jim Farley went on CNBC in February and when asked about the agreement with CATL replied that ford had no other options. CNBC vehemently questioned Mr. Farley on this and Farley continued to lie on national television. By the way, almost every statement made by Mr. Farley is either Ford Propaganda or straight out lies.

Mr. Faley claims that Ford has no other choice than to partner with CATL for battery production in the United States, on tax payers money.

Lets take a look at the competition :

1) toyota = owns their own battery production company with Panasonic as of 2022 and will build a plant in north carolina with batteries made using Panasonic technology and United States raw materials with 100 percent American workers = non-union.

2) stellantis = will partner with Lyten a company headquartered in CALIFORNIA.

3) General Motors = will partner with LG, Livent, and POSCO for EV battery support.

Again, this proves that Farley lied when asked the question by CNBC. Remember the United States specifically wrote the EV subsidy law bill so that a large percentage on EV battery production had to be North American or with a country that is in good standings with the United States and CHINA is excluded from the list. Ford believes they found a loop pole. Sounds sleazy to me. The plant in Michigan will be financed by the United States tax payers using Chinese technology, chinese materials, and approximately 300 Chinese engineers who will oversee the production. Sweet deal for ford, all they do at the end of the day is employ approximately 2500 UAW workers and build a cheap battery with Fords emblem stamped on it at the tax payers expense.

Keep in mind , I own 4 Ford vehicles totaling approximately $ 335,000.00.

Is there something I'm missing here or does this seem wrong and completely selfish that the company that's taunts themselves as the most " pro USA company" is working with and paying the same country/company that was flying drones over the United States and Canada, and participates in war games with RUSSIA.

I have to ask, I'm I the only Ford customer this bothers ?

60sIron

2500 more UAW workers in Michigan is pretty good for America in my opinion. Good paying jobs that support a lot of families and businesses.

I also think perhaps it is an exaggeration that all the workers will be overseen by "300 Chinese engineers". I've been to a lot of factories, and even transplant factories and that isn't usually how the work is divided up.

As far as "Chinese technology", CATL has taken American LFP technology and improved on it. As good as a company as Ford is, it doesn't make batteries and hasn't developed any technology so it has neither the know how or the manufacturing experience to do this on their own. Your point about the competition stands. All the OEMs have partnered up with battery companies, some have partnered with more than one. I can add a few:

BMW has partnered with Samsung and CATL

Mercedes has partnered with Samsung

Nissan spun off their battery cell (probably the worst in the business) into AESC

Tesla has JV plants with both Panasonic and CATL

Stellantis had a JV with LG

So, yes Ford had to partner with a battery company and hopefully they picked a good one, I suppose we will find out.

As far as the subsidy goes, my understanding is this is a LOAN and not an outright subsidy. When the government bailed out Chrysler and GM a dozen years ago the taxpayers got all their money back with interest. Hopefully that will happen this time too. I would prefer if all this could be done in the private sector, but I'm not going to get too upset about it, especially on a Friday.

WildsheepGS4

Coming from a clown with a 2 door badlands. Yep, ok.

OrangecrushBronco

Yeah, I bleed blue oval, but farely keeps testing my loyalty at every turn.

Rydfree

That's a real Bronco to you buddy ....

60sIron

2500 more UAW workers in Michigan is pretty good for America in my opinion. Good paying jobs that support a lot of families and businesses.

I also think perhaps it is an exaggeration that all the workers will be overseen by "300 Chinese engineers". I've been to a lot of factories, and even transplant factories and that isn't usually how the work is divided up.

As far as "Chinese technology", CATL has taken American LFP technology and improved on it. As good as a company as Ford is, it doesn't make batteries and hasn't developed any technology so it has neither the know how or the manufacturing experience to do this on their own. Your point about the competition stands. All the OEMs have partnered up with battery companies, some have partnered with more than one. I can add a few:

BMW has partnered with Samsung and CATL

Mercedes has partnered with Samsung

Nissan spun off their battery cell (probably the worst in the business) into AESC

Tesla has JV plants with both Panasonic and CATL

Stellantis had a JV with LG

So, yes Ford had to partner with a battery company and hopefully they picked a good one, I suppose we will find out.

As far as the subsidy goes, my understanding is this is a LOAN and not an outright subsidy. When the government bailed out Chrysler and GM a dozen years ago the taxpayers got all their money back with interest. Hopefully that will happen this time too. I would prefer if all this could be done in the private sector, but I'm not going to get too upset about it, especially on a Friday.

WildsheepGS4

Be careful what you say on here. The ford nazis will come after you.

The excuses some of these clowns make up is almost laughable. But I guess that’s how you feel when you own a bronco with 5 years worth of payments.

OrangecrushBronco

I'm guessing you've never been in a union? I was for decades and a shop steward while being a manager. Like anything else there is good and bad but unions have largely lost their way. We no longer work in a pre human rights pre HR era. Unions tend to protect lazy tenured people of good workers and spend their money and resources for political campaigns rather then the union members. That's when they're not raiding the pension cupboards.

OrangecrushBronco

I don't know, all in all the moderators here have been pretty fair and balanced. Not the first time I've criticized farely nor am I the only one. Most people on here are here because we are passionate about the brand and don't like seeing it dragged by it's "leaders" .

WildsheepGS4

Do your homework.

Toyota.

WildsheepGS4

Another passifier.