Tie Rod Upgrade, Sleeves or Nah?

raqball

Thoughts?

Thoughts: This is a subject that will bring out passionate responses 😂 I'm on Nah for now. Maybe if I upgrade other components, though I'm not planning on going to 37s or anything. But you can get pretty far stock (in most circumstances -- I won't say there can't be freak stuff).

Laura

Thoughts: This is a subject that will bring out passionate responses 😂 I'm on Nah for now. Maybe if I upgrade other components, though I'm not planning on going to 37s or anything. But you can get pretty far stock (in most circumstances -- I won't say there can't be freak stuff).

Thanks for the video.

Yeah, it's a touchy topic as some are firmly entrenched in their thoughts on the topic.

I go back and forth between doing it, and nah.. And like I said in the OP, I'd rather have a broken tie rod on the trail as opposed to a broken rack.

I have 34's and don't plan on going any larger that that.

Personally I think that the tie rods are FAR weaker than they need to be in order to protect the steering rack. However, I understand people's hesitation. There's also a middle ground. You can buy the Bronco Buster tiered braces and throw them into your Bronco. Then, if you do break a tie rod you can use them to do a field repair and drive your Bronco out. Installing them is a lot easier/quicker on the trail than trying to do an actual tie rod swap (even though that's not THAT bad).

Yeah, we've opted to carrying a spare tie rod & tools kit. You've mentioned the typical causes for those steering failures, so gotta expect you won't have problems

Of course, all of this relates to G6 Bronco's independent front suspension design. IFS provides Bronco's great handling & comfy ride qualities. We've owned Bronco G2 and couple Jeeps with solid front axles - IMO, the difference is significant!

Cheers

JoergH

You can buy the Bronco Buster tiered braces and throw them into your Bronco. Then, if you do break a tie rod you can use them to do a field repair and drive your Bronco out. Installing them is a lot easier/quicker on the trail than trying to do an actual tie rod swap (even though that's not THAT bad).

This was also a thought I had.. Leave the stock tie rods as they are and either carry a sleeve like the BroncBuster or an extra factory tie rod. I'll prob go that route then at some point do an HD rack and tie rods at the same time..

I don't wheel hard and never do extreme trails but since I am solo 95% of the time, I'd like to address this before I get stuck out in the middle of nowhere..

Sad story of despair time and while unrelated to a tie rod, shows why I try to address issues before they happen. In this case, why I never go out solo w/o a winch.

< sad story of despair >

Mid 80's, I'm new to 4x4'ing and have a sweet CJ I had just purchased.. Now remember, this is the mid 80's so no cell phones ect..

I go out on a very narrow and muddy trail and at about 5 miles deep, the trail is blocked by numerous downed trees.. The sides of the trails are even more muddy and they are soft and deep. I attempt a 5,000 point turn around and at some point, I back up to much and my driver side rear wheel instantly sinks into the mud at the side of the trail. The entire rear wheel is swallowed up.

I spend about 2 hours trying to get unstuck. I am digging mud out with hands, stuffing branches and everything I can find to try and get traction. No dice!

I hike back out the 5'ish miles to the main road and start trying to hitchhike a ride back to civilization. I am covered head to toe in mud and probably look like I had just murdered someone and buried them out in the forest.. 😂

Eventually someone stops and gives me a lift. The next day a buddy with a 4Runner dives me back out to the spot and we are able to get it out.

Never again.. If I had a winch, I would have been out and on my way in minutes. Now I do not hit dirt until I have a winch...

< /sad story of despair >

raqball

This was also a thought I had.. Leave the stock tie rods as they are and either carry a sleeve like the BroncBuster or an extra factory tie rod. I'll prob go that route then at some point do an HD rack and tie rods at the same time..

I don't wheel hard and never do extreme trails but since I am solo 95% of the time, I'd like to address this before I get stuck out in the middle of nowhere..

Sad story of despair time and while unrelated to a tie rod, shows why I try to address issues before they happen. In this case, why I never go out solo w/o a winch.

< sad story of despair >

Mid 80's, I'm new to 4x4'ing and have a sweet CJ I had just purchased.. Now remember, this is the mid 80's so no cell phones ect..

I go out on a very narrow and muddy trail and at about 5 miles deep, the trail is blocked by numerous downed trees.. The sides of the trails are even more muddy and they are soft and deep. I attempt a 5,000 point turn around and at some point, I back up to much and my driver side rear wheel instantly sinks into the mud at the side of the trail. The entire rear wheel is swallowed up.

I spend about 2 hours trying to get unstuck. I am digging mud out with hands, stuffing branches and everything I can find to try and get traction. No dice!

I hike back out the 5'ish miles to the main road and start trying to hitchhike a ride back to civilization. I am covered head to toe in mud and probably look like I had just murdered someone and buried them out in the forest.. 😂

Eventually someone stops and gives me a lift. The next day a buddy with a 4Runner dives me back out to the spot and we are able to get it out.

Never again.. If I had a winch, I would have been out and on my way in minutes. Now I do not hit dirt until I have a winch...

< /sad story of despair >

LOL - Thanks for sharing your 'learning' story. Think most of us have had a similar experience. Mine was sliding off a high mtn trail into deep snow with no shovel, traction boards or other recovery gear on-board. I was very lucky as couple kind souls came by with strong backs and several shovels and tow strap.

Cheers

I will try to provide my best academic response.

The weak point in any IFS (any manufacturer) is going to be the rack and pinion steering. (they could specify other forms of steering but the rack and pinion provides superior feel and response to any other options).

Why is this? Lets look at how they are produced. They have to be mass produced in an economical manner. So the rack housing is manufactured using casting... Probably sand casting in most cases. This allows for cores (hollow areas). This process has significant tolerance range inherent to the process. (tolerance is the range of acceptability in measurements) My guess is in the hundredths of an inch. There is a lot of expansion and contraction going on that is simply part of the process. Because of this "tolerance range" they design the rack with a lash adjustment. This is a sliding piece that sits directly behind the pinion and using a spring pushes up on the rack to assure it is mating properly with the pinion.

They then have to have bushings at either end of the housing. These help keep the rack aligned in the housing and with the lash adjuster and pinion. They have "give".... Indentational load deflection and rebound to be specific. So when a tie rod pushes on the rack (or rack pushes on tie rod) these bushings have a little flex in them, a softness if you will. The Manufacturer has to identify a polymer to manufacture these out of. They try to specify a polymer with high ILD and high Rebound that also has high durability. They want them to last as long as possible. It is a balancing act though. The most durability will have zero ILD and rebound.... the highest ILD and rebound polymers will have very poor durability in a lubricated frictional setting. Depending on the polymer ILD and rebound will fade with use over time. Durability? well the bushings wear and break down.

Personal opinion time:

I am going to compare and contrast the "auto manufacturers" rack to the 74 Weld rack to show case the options.
The "74" rack housing is not cast. It is milled on a five axis mill out of 6061 Alcoa signature select plate. The housing in this case is significantly thicker with little structural flex. The tolerances with this manufacturing process allow a range that is with in the ten thousandths or possibly greater hundred thousandths of an inch. This means there is no need for a lash adjustment. The rack teeth will stay meshed with the pinion teeth inside the required alignment tolerance without any additional pressure from a lash adjuster. The 74 rack then uses a bushing polymer that has very high ILD and rebound properties but very low durability in the lubricated friction arena. Instead 74 uses an oil infused bronze and sleeves the polymer. The result is significantly improved ILD, rebound and durability out of the bushings. 74 goes a step further... because there is no lash adjuster they now place another bushing on either side and behind the pinion where it is needed most. Now as you can imagine, this manufacturing process and the materials used are WAY more expensive. This is why they are selling them for 3 times the price of the sever duty Ford rack and I am actually surprised they wee able to get the price down that far.



I have never quite understood how some of the after market bushings are "better" than the stock bushings. To me they just seem like a replacement. The material scientists that work at auto manufactures are pretty good at what they do. How is anyone else specifying a polymer that does a better job in the exact same environment and conditions. While periodic replacement of these bushings will prolong the life of the manufacturers steering rack I just do not see how they are an upgrade rather than a simple replacement of worn parts.

I think my best bet at this point is to just grab spare factory tie rod or the BroncBuster.. I'll prob just snag the BroncBuster, not install them, and just keep them for a quick on the trail repair if needed..

Thanks for the responses..

I roll with this kit and two spare tie rods, why two IDK... if 1 is good 2 is better.
https://td-distributing.myshopify.com/products/bronco-6g-tie-rod-repair-kit
I hope to never use it but my anxiety while wheeling has come way down with the kit.
But if I was a Solo wheeler I might just do the BroncBuster as a trail repair, probably easier if you are by your self. but those aint cheap.

Jakob1972

I roll with this kit and two spare tie rods, why two IDK... if 1 is good 2 is better.
https://td-distributing.myshopify.com/products/bronco-6g-tie-rod-repair-kit
I hope to never use it but my anxiety while wheeling has come way down with the kit.
But if I was a Solo wheeler I might just do the BroncBuster as a trail repair, probably easier if you are by your self. but those aint cheap.

That's what I got.

Jakob1972

But if I was a Solo wheeler I might just do the BroncBuster as a trail repair, probably easier if you are by your self. but those aint cheap.

They are not cheap but what's going to cost more, the BroncBusters or a tow from xx miles out and deep into nowhere land. There is also a bonus of not having to walk miles back to a trailhead..

I am solo 95% of the time and I generally go on weekdays since most people are at work. My last camping trip, I wheeled for 2 days. On day 1, I saw one or two other people and those were pretty close to the start of the trails area. On day 2, I didn't see a single other person and I was out there for 6+ hours.

raqball

I think my best bet at this point is to just grab spare factory tie rod or the BroncBuster.. I'll prob just snag the BroncBuster, not install them, and just keep them for a quick on the trail repair if needed..

Thanks for the responses..

I like how the BB brace can be easily applied on the trail.... It only works though if the break is where the brace is to sit... Which I would think is the typical location.... What if you got with someone else, purchased two tie rods and two braces and each carried a brace and a tie rod.... Just thinking out loud....

Unicorn

What if you got with someone else, purchased two tie rods and two braces and each carried a brace and a tie rod....

That would be awesome but I think the BroncBuster's are side specific? Maybe that's if you just want the logo looking all purrrdy, which I couldn't care less about.

raqball

That would be awesome but I think the BroncBuster's are side specific? Maybe that's if you just want to logo looking all purrrdy, which I couldn't care less about.

I do not know if they are side specific either.... other than logo... So the cover the treads.... probably a little up onto the rod beyond the threads... I would have to look at one installed. When I get home I will look at my old tie rods... (they are on the dinning room table still) 😆 .... but is the diameter of the rod covered on either end of the threads and is it the same size??? Could be a difference in flaring at each end... I do not know. If not then they should be switchable...

Unicorn

I do not know if they are side specific either.... other than logo... So the cover the treads.... probably a little up onto the rod beyond the threads... I would have to look at one installed. When I get home I will look at my old tie rods... (they are on the dinning room table still) 😆 .... but is the diameter of the rod covered on either end of the threads and is it the same size??? Could be a difference in flaring at each end... I do not know. If not then they should be switchable...

Their install instructions lead me to believe they are side specific but that might just be for the pretty logo to be right side up... By the look of them, they appear to be tapered with smaller screws and longer screws.

Anyone have the BroncBuster tie rod braces?

raqball

Their install instructions lead me to believe they are side specific but that might just be for the pretty logo to be right side up... By the look of them, they appear to be tapered with smaller screws and longer screws.

Anyone have the BroncBuster tie rod braces?

Tie rods are definitely different diameters on either side of the threads but I still do not know why they could not just be flipped..... Unless maybe a thread is cut into them. But I do not know.

Unicorn

Tie rods are definitely different diameters on either side of the threads but I still do not know why they could not just be flipped..... Unless maybe a thread is cut into them. But I do not know.

I don't think they have any threads. I might email them and ask as their instructions indicate they are side specific but like I said, that might just be for the logo to look all purrrrrdy..

I am considering just biting the bullet and ordering a new rack end cap and some better tie rods. It's a $1400 endeavor and not something I wanted to do at this point but it sure beats the heck out of getting stranded in the middle of nowhere, solo..

https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/stage-1-bronco-steering-cap-and-bushing-kit/
https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/icon-bronco-tie-rods/

The BroncBuster Braces are $400 so going this route is about $1K more. But it's a better, and permanent, solution..

Not worried about the alignment cost as I have free lifetime alignments through Firestone.

I am back and forth on what to do.. LOL

So - do it right the 1st time has entered the equation and I decided to just order the 74weld stage 1 rack end cap and the icon HD tie rods from them and be done with it..

https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/stage-1-bronco-steering-cap-and-bushing-kit/
https://motorsports.74weld.com/product/icon-bronco-tie-rods/

I called them and spoke to a very nice gentleman who offered me a 10% off coupon code.. Knocked right at $140 off the kit..

$1300 delivered which is only $900 more than if I had went with the BroncBuster band-aid fix..

/thread

For $39 I went with these: https://speedlogix.com/products/speedlogix-billet-tie-rod-sleeve-2021-2023-bronco
Small investment.