Why on earth did ford not offer the hoss 3.0 in the badlands.

ponygarage

as the title says, I do not understand why Ford did not offer the upgraded steering rack and tie rods specifically in the badlands edition. that is the vehicle most designed for being used in the types of activities that have caused tie rod and rack failure. it seems to me the badlands should be the obvious choice for this option. the internal bypass shocks probably are more important in the wildtrack, but I will probably try to get one of those upgraded racks on order, if I ever get my badlands. this is obviously more of a rant, I don't expect anyone outside of ford corporate has any idea why they do the things they do.

I believe it has to do with GVWR. If you had a 2.7, SAS on a 4 door Badlands you could not get PPF or a roof rack.

SlashRacer

I believe it has to do with GVWR. If you had a 2.7, SAS on a 4 door Badlands you could not get PPF or a roof rack.

that really does not make much sense to me either. is a badlands that much heavier than a wildtrack? why? the wildtrack has basically all the same components as a badlands except the disconnecting swaybar, and you can't get it with the wash out floor and marine grade vinyl seats. and it seems to me that if weight were the issue the heavier vehicle should be able to get the stronger suspension components. IDK maybe it has something to do with the sway bar disconnect

I thought HOSS 3.0 is tuned for Baja - not rock climbing. That’s why it’s offered on the Wildtrak.

Hudman316

I thought HOSS 3.0 is tuned for Baja - not rock climbing. That’s why it’s offered on the Wildtrak.

I guess I would have to ask how many tie rods and steering rack failures have been reported on vehicles doing baja type racing vs rock crawling?

ponygarage

that really does not make much sense to me either. is a badlands that much heavier than a wildtrack? why? the wildtrack has basically all the same components as a badlands except the disconnecting swaybar, and you can't get it with the wash out floor and marine grade vinyl seats. and it seems to me that if weight were the issue the heavier vehicle should be able to get the stronger suspension components. IDK maybe it has something to do with the sway bar disconnect

Badlands is 80 lbs heavier than Wildtrak in its base configuration. This is the Badlands with the standard package, no Sasquatch package, 2.3L engine, manual transmission, etc. Once you configure the Badlands similarly to the Wildtrak with the 2.7L, automatic, etc. it is several hundred pounds heavier. Keep in mind that Badlands has steel bumpers, full-body bash plates, rock rails all as standard options, etc. The Badlands is so heavy that it's maximum towing is actually around ~3200 lbs when loaded up with options rather than the full 3500 lbs on the other Broncos trims.

The problem is they have to leave a certain percentage of GCWR for the payload from the factory, and the Badlands is clearly approaching that limit. The base Badlands Bronco, for example, has the roof racks as an available option. Once you add on the heavier 2.7L engine, the roof racks are no longer available. And the only reasonable explanation is they are approaching the weight limits.

BUT, weight ratings aside, I think HOSS 3.0 is a good differentiator for the Wildtrak trim. Without that, the Wildtrak is just as capable as any other Bronco with the Sasquatch package, which in my opinion made the Wildtrak a completely pointless trim.

Also worth noting that the upgraded steering components are rumored to be released on the Ford Performance site sometime in the future. So we should be able to get them... someday... just probably not anytime soon.

RagnarKon

Badlands is 80 lbs heavier than Wildtrak in its base configuration. This is the Badlands with the standard package, no Sasquatch package, 2.3L engine, manual transmission, etc. Once you configure the Badlands similarly to the Wildtrak with the 2.7L, automatic, etc. it is several hundred pounds heavier. Keep in mind that Badlands has steel bumpers, full-body bash plates, rock rails all as standard options, etc. The Badlands is so heavy that it's maximum towing is actually around ~3200 lbs when loaded up with options rather than the full 3500 lbs on the other Broncos trims.

The problem is they have to leave a certain percentage of GCWR for the payload from the factory, and the Badlands is clearly approaching that limit. The base Badlands Bronco, for example, has the roof racks as an available option. Once you add on the heavier 2.7L engine, the roof racks are no longer available. And the only reasonable explanation is they are approaching the weight limits.

BUT, weight ratings aside, I think HOSS 3.0 is a good differentiator for the Wildtrak trim. Without that, the Wildtrak is just as capable as any other Bronco with the Sasquatch package, which in my opinion made the Wildtrak a completely pointless trim.

Also worth noting that the upgraded steering components are rumored to be released on the Ford Performance site sometime in the future. So we should be able to get them... someday... just probably not anytime soon.

thanks that does make more sense. I had forgotten about the standard bash plates. I do hope they offer the upgrades over the counter. it also makes me wonder if I should consider switching to the wildtrack. I am not a rock crawler, the main reason I ordered the badlands is actually for the wash out floor and marine grade vinyl. I also want the adaptive cruise control so it was the only real option for me.

RagnarKon

Also worth noting that the upgraded steering components are rumored to be released on the Ford Performance site sometime in the future. So we should be able to get them... someday... just probably not anytime soon.

@Laura said it might be September when those are made available.

I would have bought a Wildtrak with Hoss 3.0 over my Badlands if it was available before my VIN was issued. Im surrounded by farmland and the nearest rocks are 8-12 hours away.

ponygarage

thanks that does make more sense. I had forgotten about the standard bash plates. I do hope they offer the upgrades over the counter. it also makes me wonder if I should consider switching to the wildtrack. I am not a rock crawler, the main reason I ordered the badlands is actually for the wash out floor and marine grade vinyl. I also want the adaptive cruise control so it was the only real option for me.

I was about to say... definitely get Black Diamond Sasquatch... but yeah... if adaptive cruise control is important to you, you are stuck.

ponygarage

... I do not understand why Ford did not offer the upgraded steering rack and tie rods specifically in the badlands edition...

... I will probably try to get one of those upgraded racks on order...

Based on those two statements above (and below), it appears abundantly clear to me.

I don't know why they didn't upsize me for free...

I will probably upsize to a large order of fries and an x-large Coke at my own expense...

AcesandEights

Based on those two statements above (and below), it appears abundantly clear to me.

I don't know why they didn't upsize me for free...

I will probably upsize to a large order of fries and an x-large Coke at my own expense...

It is abundantly clear to me you are completely off track. the Hoss 3.0 is not free. you still have to pay for it, but you do not have to pay for 2 racks and the extra installation fees. I also live 2 hours from the Dealership so getting the work done would necessitate leaving the truck there, going back at another time when I am not on call and picking it up. SMH some people just like to stir the pot.

You missed my point entirely.

AcesandEights

You missed my point entirely.

I don't think I did, you were just being rude.

ponygarage

I guess I would have to ask how many tie rods and steering rack failures have been reported on vehicles doing baja type racing vs rock crawling?

Its not just tie rods- Its a Raptor-lite suspension. The Fox shocks and Raptor derived steering rack are better set up for whoops and desert running. Could you do that in a badlands? absolutely. But as @RagnarKon points out there is a weight penalty that makes that more difficult.
But here is the thing too- you cant make a vehicle great at everything all at once. You need to pick and choose for your use case and optimize your set up to do that. Just my $0.02

Hudman316

I thought HOSS 3.0 is tuned for Baja - not rock climbing. That’s why it’s offered on the Wildtrak.

Nailed it, there is an article written about this from FMC Racing

Mal

Its not just tie rods- Its a Raptor-lite suspension. The Fox shocks and Raptor derived steering rack are better set up for whoops and desert running. Could you do that in a badlands? absolutely. But as @RagnarKon points out there is a weight penalty that makes that more difficult.
But here is the thing too- you cant make a vehicle great at everything all at once. You need to pick and choose for your use case and optimize your set up to do that. Just my $0.02

yes I totally understand this. My concern/ question is that there have been so many people on forums and facebook who have broken tie rods and steering racks out rock crawling, it seems that it would be wise to offer the upgraded rack and tie rods in the badlands. My perfect build is not available due to the package way of ordering new vehicles. I don't think the badlands needs the raptor suspension, but since the badlands is specifically designed for rock crawling and that that is the activity that breaks the rack and tie rods, and they have a solution available in other trims it would be nice to be able to get them in the badlands trim as well.

ponygarage

yes I totally understand this. My concern/ question is that there have been so many people on forums and facebook who have broken tie rods and steering racks out rock crawling, it seems that it would be wise to offer the upgraded rack and tie rods in the badlands. My perfect build is not available due to the package way of ordering new vehicles. I don't think the badlands needs the raptor suspension, but since the badlands is specifically designed for rock crawling and that that is the activity that breaks the rack and tie rods, and they have a solution available in other trims it would be nice to be able to get them in the badlands trim as well.

I think in the videos that I have seen, with the exception of one, we’re rigs that weren’t Badlands or Sasquatch, but lower end builds that didn’t necessarily have complete steering and suspension upgrades. Many did lifts and wheels and tires, but didn’t even have the upgraded Sasquatch steering components Or aftermarket upgrades. Even small changes can completely alter driving and stress point dynamics.

ponygarage

yes I totally understand this. My concern/ question is that there have been so many people on forums and facebook who have broken tie rods and steering racks out rock crawling, it seems that it would be wise to offer the upgraded rack and tie rods in the badlands. My perfect build is not available due to the package way of ordering new vehicles. I don't think the badlands needs the raptor suspension, but since the badlands is specifically designed for rock crawling and that that is the activity that breaks the rack and tie rods, and they have a solution available in other trims it would be nice to be able to get them in the badlands trim as well.

I hear you. Part of the change over to an IFS from a Solid axle on pretty much everything breaks tie rods first. I agree that the Bronco ones appear to be breaking more often than they should. That all being said, something like a tie rod brace is a much cheaper solution than a whole different suspension system. I thought I read that the Ranger tie rods would fit too (i may be wildly off base on that, so please grain of salt that). A replacement tie rod, or an upgraded FoMoCo or AM one will no doubt be on the market soon, and will most likely be much less expensive. There are still not many of these in the wild and folks are just getting started thrashing them to figure out what breaks and the best way to fix it.
Im with you on the package ordering though. That drove up my costs and pushed some compromises I didn't want. Give me alacart any day of the week.

ponygarage

yes I totally understand this. My concern/ question is that there have been so many people on forums and facebook who have broken tie rods and steering racks out rock crawling, it seems that it would be wise to offer the upgraded rack and tie rods in the badlands. My perfect build is not available due to the package way of ordering new vehicles. I don't think the badlands needs the raptor suspension, but since the badlands is specifically designed for rock crawling and that that is the activity that breaks the rack and tie rods, and they have a solution available in other trims it would be nice to be able to get them in the badlands trim as well.

Realistically I don’t think you’ll need the upgraded tie rods or steering rack if you are sticking with the factory tire sizes. 35” tires will be fine. 37” will probably also be fine unless you are really beating on the vehicle, got a giant lift (> 2”), or you get particularly heavy tires. Once you get to 39”+ tires, then yeah, you’ll probably start running into issues. Most of these people who are continually breaking tie-rods and their steering rack are running 40” tires… so yeah… obviously they’re going to break something.

It’s the same problem most Jeep people have. You upgrade one component and quickly find a weak link you didn’t know you had. Upgrade that weak link and you find a new one. Rinse/repeat until you’ve put tens of thousands of dollars into your vehicle.

As for me… I do intend on heavily off-roading… particularly rock crawling (could care less about Baja). BUT, for the foreseeable future I’ll be sticking with stock 33” tires, just too much stuff going on in life at the moment to dump a ton of money into my Bronco. But at some point those 33” tires will wear out and I’ll probably be getting a set of 37” tires to replace it. And yes, I will be upgrading the steering components and tie rod as well. Whether it’ll be the Ford Performance kit or not, I don’t know. Depends on what is available at the time.

ponygarage

I don't think I did, you were just being rude.

If you thought my post was rude, yes, you missed my point. I apologize if you read it that way, as it was not my intent.