Implosion at ADV Fiberglass - No more hard tops

raqball

Do we know how many customers got screwed? I know it says 1,200 or so were pre-orders but I assume some of those backed out before all was lost. I also wonder how many investors lost extremely large amounts of money in this fiasco..

Also, I think ADV's patent pending excuse is BS. If what they say is true, they could fight the patent. I am not a patent expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once..

Lastly, ADV advising people there is nothing they can do in regards to refunds or assisting in getting their money back is absolute rubbish IMO. People did not pre-order and pay APG for the tops, they pre-ordered and paid ADV..

ADV took the pre-order money and tossed it into a sinking ship. Now they want to wash their hands clean of the disaster. I am not saying APG does not have any responsibility here but ADV are the ones who took the customers cash with the promise of a product not APG..

RagnarKon

I don't think we know many got screwed, and it likely won't come out unless the State of California steps in to do their own investigation or someone files a class action.

ADV's patent excuse is indeed nonsense. If you read the contract they signed with APG, ADV Fiberglass explicitly gave up any intellectual property rights. Granted... I don't claim to be a lawyer but the language seems pretty straightforward to me. I'm guessing they were probably trying to earn favor by saying "oh we tried everything!". But... in my opinion it just made it seem like they never read the contract they signed and didn't understand what they were agreeing to. Worst part is ADV Fiberglass is the ones that attached the contract to the email for everyone to see.

RagnarKon

Reply from APG (ADV Fiberglass' production partner) attached.

On August 7, 2024, Advanced Fiberglass Concepts (ADV), formerly known as Glassworks Unlimited, unleashed a series of premeditated publications (in written and video formats) which unjustifiably attack and blame APG for their inability to deliver promises made (or refunds of deposits taken) to their own customers. APG cannot be blamed for the decision that ADV made to accept customer pre-orders and deposits for a product that was still in development by a manufacturer (APG). To be clear, APG never required or requested that ADV market and accept pre-orders of the Bronco Hardtop products. That decision was made by ADV and ADV alone.​

​

ADV is not the designer or manufacturer of hardtop products that it apparently pre-sold to thousands of its customers. Rather, ADV was granted distribution rights for the hardtop products in anticipation of those products being designed, developed, manufactured and brought to market. ADV is just a distributor and nothing more. In fact, the lawsuit filed by ADV contains a copy of the Distribution Agreement between APG and ADV. There are a few key elements of that contractual relationship:​

​

1. APG is the manufacturer while ADV is a distributor.
2. APG owns all intellectual property rights to the hardtop products, including patents. ADV does not have any ownership interest in those rights by virtue of its role as a distributor.
3. ADV agreed that all advertising and promotion of the products would be completely factual and conform to the highest standards of lawful, ethical advertising.
4. ADV agreed to adhere to the highest reasonable standards of business behavior, honesty, integrity, fair dealing and ethical conduct in all dealings with its customers and APG.

​

The recent publications and lawsuit filed by ADV is an obvious attempt to shift its customers’ focus from itself to APG. The agreements between APG and ADV did not require pre-orders to ADV’s customers. In fact, APG reserved the right and always intended to sell the hardtop products direct to its own customers, but only when the product is ready for immediate sale and delivery. Despite many customers requesting pre-order rights from APG, we made the responsible decision not to accept pre-orders or customer deposits.​

​

This project has involved 2+ years of development, thousands of engineering hours, millions of dollars, and an international supply chain which has been cultivated over years of experience in the specialized manufacturing field. We did not set out to make a quick and cheap fiberglass roof with an aftermarket design strategy (as others did). We set out to do what we always do: manufacture the highest quality product possible… and that takes time.​

​

When APG sets out to design and manufacture a product, we do not rush to market and we certainly would not accept individual orders for a product that is still in development. ADV made the business decision to accept pre-orders with full knowledge of the status of development. Any delivery estimates provided to ADV have been “estimates” and nothing more; ADV knew that. All major projects can have setbacks and delays; frankly, it’s to be expected.​

​

APG was never informed of how many pre-orders ADV accepted. To our complete and utter surprise, John Gerwatosky recently told APG that they “pre-sold” approximately 1,250 hardtops. At an average retail purchase price of $6,800.00 (i.e. cost + tax, shipping, all options, etc.), that math calculates to $8,500,000.00. The real question everyone should be asking is what did ADV do with the money? We at APG have an idea of how the money was spent by ADV and its principals, but we’ll save that for litigation. The lawsuit filed by ADV is a transparent attempt at damage control by a distributor who needs to face its own customers for its irresponsible business decisions. APG will not accept blame for ADV’s actions or allow ADV to continue its charade of falsehoods. We categorically deny and reject each and every claim made by ADV and will uphold our reputation as we prove their wrongdoing in court.​

​

While we are sympathetic to the customers of ADV, we will not break from APG’s dignity and ethics. We will continue to manufacture the finest 6th Generation Ford Bronco Products in the world and will announce the availability of the hardtop products when we know, for certain, that we can accept, fill and deliver our customers’ orders.​

one.badbronco

Are you able to share where this came from? There are screenshots of APG commenting on the 6G forum sharing that the tops are available for pre-order on ADV website... they deleted the comment but a few people got the screenshot so it's been leaked already.

raqball

Not sure how that changes anything.

APG (the so called manufacturer) said they themselves were not accepting pre-orders. They also said, this the statement that was quoted, they knew ADV (the so called distributor) was accepting pre-orders they just didn't know how many there were. I don;t see a problem with the 'manufacturer' telling people that a 'distributor' is accepting pre-orders.

raqball

Not sure how that changes anything.

APG (the so called manufacturer) said they themselves were not accepting pre-orders. They also said, in the statement that was quoted, that they knew ADV (the so called distributor) was accepting pre-orders but that they didn't know how many pre-orders ADV had taken. I don't see a problem with the 'manufacturer' telling people that a 'distributor' is accepting pre-orders.

Both are responsible for this disaster but ADV took peoples money and are now trying to wash their hands of it by saying there is nothing they can do to help. Sure there is, refund everyone now and take the financial issues up with APG in court.

one.badbronco

their angle of not realizing what was going on doesn't really add up....

raqball

Well, that at both ends of the stick but ADV was the only one that took peoples money and now are trying to wash their hands clean.. ADV took their money not APG.

Both are at fault but it's ADV that took and has the customers cash..

one.badbronco

I am definitely not trying to start an argument on the internet.

one.badbronco

I am just blown away at how big of a mess this is and how many people were scammed.... It could have happened to any of us. I have ADV fenders - I was referred to them and I was happy with what I received/their customer service. I really wanted to believe that ADV just made a VERY dumb business agreement and let their scam go on way too long. However, since all of this I have done more research into ADV and I see that they were originally Glassworks (also mentioned by APG) and Glassworks is well decorated all over the forums for scamming customers and taking money via the internet for Toyota fiberglass elements and never shipping them or refunding the customers. I am shocked that they were able to rebrand and continue on without legal action from doing this before... Googling APG owner reveals its own set of issues as well.

raqball

Who is arguing? It's called a discussion.


I hope they both go out of business and they both deserve it.. Their reputations are forever damaged. I would not order a $1 screw pack from either of them at this point..

one.badbronco

I am an empathetic and sensitive female 😂 everything feels like an argument. JK lol.

one.badbronco

I am an empathetic and sensitive female 😂 everything feels like an argument. JK lol. Thank you for clarifying. I honestly feel slightly embarrassed to have those fenders now. Debating removing my posts / tags about being SO happy with them (I have only had them for about a month).

raqball

All good! 👍✌


If you have not noticed, I place the bulk of the blame for the lost customer money on ADV. If they wanted to throw their own personal cash, or investor cash, into a project where they did what appears to be ZERO research and digging to see if what APG was telling them was legit, then cool beans, have at it.

ADV decided to take pre-orders having done little to no research into what APG was feeding them. Then there was delay after delay, after delay. Issues and strange happenings with red flags everywhere and yet they STILL kept taking pre-orders and handing cash over to APG by the truckload..

I have no personal knowledge of the ADV owners but goof grief! How were they so naive and trusting in what amounts to millions and millions of dollars? How did they not see the red flags and put a halt to this long before it got to where it is now?

one.badbronco

Are you able to share where this came from? There are screenshots of APG commenting on the 6G forum sharing that the tops are available for pre-order on ADV website... they deleted the comment but a few people got the screenshot so it's been leaked already.

RagnarKon

Attached.

one.badbronco

I totally agree with your post - when I read the lawsuit I could not believe the amounts of money that they were sending to APG over a HAND SHAKE. I just cannot wrap my head around it.... It literally screams "tinder swindler."

APG: Hey, ADV, I need another 500k wired to me today for, ummm, stuff.

ADV: OK! Sent.

• The "investors" in this case were customers. It was effectively a Kickstarter, but no one who pre-ordered knew it was a Kickstarter until this all came out.
• ADV Fiberglass did a really bad job legally protecting themselves (and in turn their customers) via the contract they signed with APG.

RagnarKon

Just... two glaring problems in this case:

• The "investors" in this case were customers. It was effectively a Kickstarter, but no one who pre-ordered knew it was a Kickstarter until this all came out.
• ADV Fiberglass did a really bad job legally protecting themselves (and in turn their customers) via the contract they signed with APG.

one.badbronco

Are you able to share where this came from? There are screenshots of APG commenting on the 6G forum sharing that the tops are available for pre-order on ADV website... they deleted the comment but a few people got the screenshot so it's been leaked already.

TK1215

The screen shot you posted in post #24 was from the 2022 after the original release of concept.