Can I use auxiliary switch to power point E of non circuit white yellow in cargo panel?

frankgoss

Feb 19, 2023

The proof of pudding is the eating! Below after hours of trying to get stats on camping refrigeratores to in the back of my Bronco , I came up with this chart. When I use a1.5mm2(15 AWG?) @20 feet from battery having according to NEC charts a maximum carrying amperage of 4.7 amp due to the voltage drop caused by the length of the white/ yellow from the battery. The load is based on the wire ratings not the fuse it is connected to.
How many watts does a 12v fridge use? Portable refrigerators operating on 12 volts of power require about 40 to 50 watts to run. However, these appliances need a higher wattage (about 80 to 120 watts[10 A]) to kick start the operation. Determining the refrigerator’s wattage rating is straightforward if one knows the voltage and amperage ratings. For example, a 12V compressor fridge with 3.5 amps will require 42 watts of power (12 volts x 3.5 amps). Calculating the amperage is also easy if data about the refrigerator’s voltage and wattage ratings are available. For instance, a 12-volt, 50-watt refrigerator draws 4.17 amperes from the battery (50 watts ÷ 12 volts). Unfortunately, it is not always the case because manufacturers have electrical ratings. For example, the CFX3 Dometic 12V fridge has a rated input power of 50 watts.

Manual amperage computation results in 4.17 amperes (50 watts ÷ 12 volts), yet the brand rates it at 7.5 amperes. ( see below)

How long can you run a 12 volt fridge? How long a 12-volt refrigerator for campervan runs depends on the battery’s rated capacity in ampere-hours (Ah), battery type (lithium vs. lead-acid), and the refrigerator’s hourly energy requirements.
It is worth noting that RV refrigerators run only for 20 minutes hourly. Hence, one can calculate the refrigerator’s hourly energy consumption by dividing the fridge’s amp rating by three since there are three 20-minutes in an hour. For example, a 4.5A refrigerator will use 1.5 amperes hourly (4.5 ÷ 3 = 1.5).

How do 12 volt coolers work? The cooling process actually depends upon the type of cooler. Basically, a 12 volt dc refrigerator uses electricity to facilitate a heat exchange between the air outside and the air inside the refrigerator. With the help of the cooling system, the heat inside the unit is absorbed and then expelled outside through vents or coils. The process is repeated until the desired temperature is achieved. Where to buy 12 volt refrigerators? It is easy to find 12v refrigerators nowadays since going off-road is gaining popularity. You can find one in home improvement and department stores such as Lowes, Best Buy, Walmart and Home Depot. They are also available online at Amazon and eBay.
Here is test of ICECO REF/FREEZERS: Maximum start up amps permited @20 feet 1.5mm2 54W 4.7A
SIZE MODEL MSRP AVE RUN WATTS AHrs AVE.POWER IDLE DRAW ECO MODE MAX AMPS. 45ltr. VL45. $559. 8.6 w .67ah. 17w 1w. 34w 54w. 4.6A 60ltr. TR60. $699. 9.0w. .69ah. 18w. 1w. 46w. 82w. 6.9A 60ltr. VL 6PRO $799. 10.0w. .76ah. 20w. 2w. 38w. 58w. 4.9A 60ltr. JP60. $799. 14.0w. 1.0ah. 27w. 1 w. 52w. 91w. 7.8A 74ltr. VL75. $819. 15.0w 1.2ah. 26w. 2w. 43w. 71w. 5.9A
Dometic. Input A 13. CFF12. $649. .79ah. 72w 6.0A 25 CFX25. $1139. .92ah 46w 78w 6.5A. 36. CFX335. $1449. .98ah. 90w 7.5A. 44. CFF45 PAC $1085. 1.07ah 46. CFX3 45. $1549. 52w. 98w. 8.2A. 53. CFX3 55. $1849. 1.2 ah. 52w 107w. 8.9A 55 CFX3 55. $1699. 1.1 ah. 103w 8.7A. 70 CFF 70DZ. $1399. 2.9 ah dual zone. 54w. 108w 9.0A. 75. CFX3 75DZ. $2099. 3.04ah dualzone. 59w. . 114w 9.5A
Above chart indicates a 1.5mm2 yellow wire @20 feet on a 10 A fuse cannot power these refrigs.Sourse of data from manufacture.* Note only one that is 4.7 A or less is the ICECO VL 45 liters. all other models over 4.7A. ( See below table where 4.7 A comes from)

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2023

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Feb 20, 2023

Here is one man's opinion:

" I don´t think that AWG 14 is a good choice, according to wikipedia it is rated for 15 to 25A. The isolation would burn off at 80A.( 13 ampacity is more conservative)

You definitley don´t want to be loosing 60W over a meter long piece of wire, unless you want it to glow red.I t seems that AWG 6 to 4 would be about right."

This is why a battery cable is 6-8 AWG. The example is home wiring, until the application of EV Ford was exempt from NEC. Now? See chart below. Solor is dc not ac!

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Deano Bronc

Feb 20, 2023

So far no one has confirm or denied that if a Bronco owners connects the 30 Amp fused (switch 1) to the 1.5mm2 (15 AWG) TO POINT E CARGO RIGHT REAR what will happen.
The Ford electrical brake controller is rated at 30 A per Ford Accessories and the Trailer light module is 6 Amp. Which can be connected to what switch safely.

Ford just says forget Auxiliary switch go directly to battery and take your Bronco apart. Why did I pay $195 to put some cool LED light?

Ford says point E can be used for mini frigs. Well here they are and @20 ft 1.5mm2 wire due to voltage drop of thin wire there is say 4.7 A at point E.

Where to buy 12 volt refrigerators? It is easy to find 12v refrigerators nowadays since going off-road is gaining popularity. You can find one in home improvement and department stores such as Lowes, Best Buy, Walmart and Home Depot. They are also available online at Amazon and eBay.Here is test of ICECO REF/FREEZERS: Maximum start up amps permited @20 feet 1.5mm2 48W (60w[5A× 12v]. 80 NEC) SIZE MODEL MSRP AVE RUN WATTS AHrs AVE.POWER IDLE DRAW ECO MODE MAX A 45ltr. VL45. $559. 8.6 w .67ah. 17w 1w. 34w 54w. 4.6A
60ltr. TR60. $699. 9.0w. .69ah. 18w. 1w. 46w. 82w. 6.9A
60ltr. VL 6PRO $799. 10.0w. .76ah. 20w. 2w. 38w. 58w. 4.9A
60ltr. JP60. $799. 14.0w. 1.0ah. 27w. 1 w. 52w. 91w. 7.8A
74ltr. VL75. $819. 15.0w 1.2ah. 26w. 2w. 43w. 71w. 5.9A Dometic. Input A 13lt. CFF12. $649. .79ah. 72w 6.0A
25lt CFX25. $1139. .92ah 46w 78w 6.5A
36lt CFX335. $1449. .98ah. 90w 7.5A.
44lt CFF45 PAC $1085. 1.07ah 46lt CFX3 45. $1549. 52w. 98w. 8.2A
53.lt CFX3 55. $1849. 1.2 ah. 52w 107w. 8.9A
55lt CFX3 55. $1699. 1.1 ah. 103w 8.7A
70 lt CFF 70DZ. $1399. 2.9 ah dual zone. 54w. 108w 9.0A
75lt CFX3 75DZ. $2099. 3.04ah dualzone. 59w. . 114w 9.5A
Above chart indicates a 1.5mm2 yellow wire @20 feet on a 10 A fuse cannot power these refrigs V/current A= ohms-Reistance or heating of wires: 12v/30A= .4 R per ft. Ristance now multiply by 20'= 8 A on 13 Ampacity 1.5mm2 white yellow. 12v/15A= .8 R per ft. Ristance now @20ft=16 A?.
AWG Copper Wire: Resistance Per: 1'(Ohms/Ft): 10 '(Ohms/10 '): 100 '(Ohms/100 ") 1000' (Ohms/1000 Ft): 15 AWG 3.184 milliohms (mΩ) 31.84 milliohms (mΩ)318.4 milliohms (mΩ)3.184 ohms (Ω)

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Feb 20, 2023

I’ve always had a problem with the small gauge wires (amp rating) of the Aux switches….

Therefore…. It makes more sense to me to run a separate relay to power your refrigerator (or drive/lights or ARB compressor or winch) directly sourced from the battery….and switched by the AUX switches.

Most importantly… switched by the Aux switch… this means:

When Aux switch is “on” ONLY when the truck is running thus protecting any drain on your battery when you shut off the ignition.

This gives you the best of all worlds…
1) you can use the correct wire gauge (correct amp load) for your refrigerator (coming directly from the battery …
2) don’t worry about too much draw on your Aux switch as they are only a trigger for the relay.
3) you don’t have to worry about draining your battery when you shut down.

This is how my off road lights, ARB twin compressor are switched ….

If you need the fridge running continuously you need to power it from an inverter/power station (jackery/eco flow)…. Plug it into your 110 outlet behind the console… it will only charge the inverter/power station when the truck is running… thus no drain on your car battery when ignition is off.
The rest of the time your fridge will run off the power station until drains down completely… which depending on its watt hour capacity will take some time.

I hope this makes sense🤔🤔🤔😁👍🏼

Deano Bronc

Feb 20, 2023

Well we final got a good answer.
The Auxiliary switches are kill switches , when on relays.

Here is Rule of Thumb:

"To adequately calculate the size of wire you need, you only have to apply two rules:

1. Ampacity rule. Every AWG gauge wire has its own ampacity; a metric that tells you how many amps that wire can handle. Example: 4 AWG copper wire has 85A ampacity at a median 75°C temperature. That means a 4 AWG wire can handle 85 amps of current.

2. NEC 80% rule. National Electrical Code (NEC) states that ‘any wire can be loaded to only 80% of its ampacity rating (for continuous loads)’. Example: 4 AWG wire can handle 85A. However, you should only load it to 80% of that; that’s 68 amps maximum. This is a safety precaution, preventing your wires from potentially catching fire."

I thought we were buying five prewired non- circuit lines. LED lights, but very little more.

Base on the above:

A refrig no larger than say 48 watts max can be used on point E.
Anything larger use the switch on a relay 1.5mm2 to a second relay say for the electric trailer controller.

I purchased 10AWG blue, that etrailer said they use for the 30Amp controller.
That controller will sit by steering wheel and on opposite side of firewall is the yellow (1.5mm2 with ampacity 13A × 80%) say 10 Amps . Then wire in relay to #10 going to controller hot (red) from battery and connect the blue from controller to 4/7 pin trailer female.

Plans for Ford Trailer Lights Module instructions:

Plan A.
As for trailer lights, have to run red 12AWG from battery, but put a relay on say switch 6 -10 Amps. The trailer red (12Ga- lights ) and blue (10Ga brakes) runs together left inside panels removed. Would still used relays in both circuits. (Duplex used white in universal)Estimated 3 shop hours @$150!

Plan B.
I was planing to use the E non circuit in rear since 10 Ampacity (1.5mm2-13A×80%) , but concerned about the length of run.

A refrig can be plugged into 20A 12v power, same location.

The Ford trailer light module only draws 6 Amps. So NEC 6× 1.25= 7.5 Amps. If switch #2 15 amps used the rule says 15 ampacity then multiply by 80% NEC. (15A× 80%= 12 ampcity on1.5mm2 wire of 13 Ampacity ). Only the length of 1.5mm2 run. See tables 1.5 mm2 @12 feet look ok !

1.5mm2 is larger than 16 AWG.(1.31mm2) However 10% smaller than 15 AWG.(1.65mm2). Voltage drop say 8% . Bronco runs at 15 volts so say 14 volt @ point E has voltage drop of 1.0V & .07 Ohms resistance, while running. Have to check with meters to verify. This mean only left cargo panel removal.😁

Can any electrician check my logic? Otherwise a dealer will charge 3 hours for his untrained techs to wire my Bronco just for trailer lights and FORD says go directly to battery on 15 Amp fuse in engine bay. Bummer $500 out the door!😥😥😥😥

AWG # Diameter(inch) Diameter(mm) Area(kcmil) Area(mm2)
14 0.0641 1.6277 4.1067 2.0809
15 0.0571 1.4495 3.2568 1.6502. 1.5mm2 ?
16 0.0508 1.2908 2.5827 1.3087

Feb 20, 2023

Hey @Frank, as you said, the proof is in the puddling. I have a 12 volt fridge, which I connect to the cigarette plug in the cargo area of my Bronco. I've let that thing run for days at a time, and guess what? Yup, my Bronco hasn't burned to the ground. Nor has any wiring melted. It all works just fine. So, personally, if I were you, I would not worry about non-issues.

OnX Trail Guide
4 Door BadSquatch | Soft-top | Velocity Blue | 2.7 Auto

Deano Bronc, Ditchrunner

Feb 21, 2023

JoergH

Its all about Watts. TheThe 12 v power point in cargo has thicker wire that the 1.5mm2 Auxiliary point E in cargo bay. Most likely 14 AWG having 7 amp rated.Now take 7A times 12 volt and you can use 98 watts like a 100 watt Ac light but uses in your home.

98 watts or 7 amps meets most of the above refrigs and that why you have no issues.

The E point wire is between 16-15 AWG and say 3.7 A times 12= say 42-48 watts. almost half of the 12 v power point. If you open your cargo panel and have the Auxiliary Switches you will see thicker wire on the 12 v power point.

The longer the distance from the battery the more voltage drop.

Feb 21, 2023

Finally. watt? Refrig did you buy model # and manufacturer?

Feb 21, 2023

I'm curious why any of these posts even matter? Where's the proof Bronco's are going up in flames because of "incorrect" wiring? Seriously, get a hobby...go enjoy your Bronco, quit dwelling on what if's...good grief.

22 BB 4dr SAS 2.7 Mid Pkg Hot Pepper Red, Delivered 8/25
Previous 2019 F150 Ruby Red SCrew 3.5 Eco, XLT Sport/FX4 302A

AMTRV, Ditchrunner

Feb 21, 2023

frdfan
I'm curious why any of these posts even matter? Where's the proof Bronco's are going up in flames because of "incorrect" wiring? Seriously, get a hobby...go enjoy your Bronco, quit dwelling on what if's...good grief.

I tend to agree. Voltage drop concerns in 10’ of wiring? Oh boy.
Wiring ratings are very conservative and are driven by insurance companies (code).
Double good grief…

Feb 21, 2023

#10

frankgoss
Finally. watt? Refrig did you buy model # and manufacturer?

It doesn't matter, I'm giving you an example of what works, and all you're talking is theory. Take my advice, or don't, I don't care. Peace Out.

OnX Trail Guide
4 Door BadSquatch | Soft-top | Velocity Blue | 2.7 Auto

BroncoFred

Feb 21, 2023

#11

Model # and manufacturer of your alleged refrig please.

Why does it matter. Well Ford $125 Bronco trailer wiring is PIA and dealer not using. They use plug and play! Those using are charging $500 to do installation or will no install at all.

The refrig is no brainer.

So I want to use the $195 Auxiliary Switches.

Feb 21, 2023

#12

JoergH
Hey @Frank, as you said, the proof is in the puddling. I have a 12 volt fridge, which I connect to the cigarette plug in the cargo area of my Bronco. I've let that thing run for days at a time, and guess what? Yup, my Bronco hasn't burned to the ground. Nor has any wiring melted. It all works just fine. So, personally, if I were you, I would not worry about non-issues.

But that isn’t the point

Ditchrunner

Feb 21, 2023

#13

JoergH

You are giving not me but the whole forum advise. But you have not qualified who your are and what model and maker refrig you were using. Please do it for the forum. I have made my decision that the 12v 20 amp fuse in the rear power port has much thicker wire, thus holding more current ( load). If and when I open the cargo panel ,I know.

I have a My 23.5 Defender on order with air and tow package, but base @$58 vs $38 Bronco. My grandson was promised the Bronco, when his Explorer goes dead. He was concerned about running on Southhampton Beaches for shark fishing and we have to get undercarriage coated, since the Explorer has bad rusting that the local Ford dealer will only change the oil.

Feb 21, 2023

#14

Here is some good advice from a camping forum:

"What is the ampacity?
The ampacity of a conductor is defined as how much current can safely be carried by it without overheating. The maximum current that can flow through a circuit element or conductor must not exceed its ampacity. For example, if a piece of 12 AWG copper has an ampacity of 20 amps, this means that we cannot send more than 20 amps through it without overheating and melting down the wiring. If we force more than 20 amps through this wire (for example, 50 amps), then it will result in overheating and eventually cause fire or electric shock. ( Math: 20A times 12v =240 watts. All listed refrig are under 240 watts. If Auxiliary non conducted wire was 12AWG ( see chart) I would not waste my time here!)

Be sure to find out the correct wire you need for any job you plan on completing.
20 amp breaker wire size

A 20 amp breaker requires a wire size of 12 AWG. This is the smallest wire size you should use for a 20 amp circuit breaker since an AWG gauge of 12 represents 20 amps. If you plan on installing a 20 amp receptacle ..., then remember that this requires a special 20 amp outlet box, which has to have an opening sufficient enough for the large cable that would lead from the breaker panel to the receptacle.

Do not mix wires!
NEVER use 14-gauge or 16-gauge wire for 20 amp breakers when sized with a No. 12 AWG wire. If you run out of No. 12 AWG wire, go and purchase some more and do not try to use any leftover wires from any other projects you might have completed earlier.

What is voltage drop?
Voltage drop is defined as the decrease in the voltage level (in volts) that occurs when current is passing through a resistance. To avoid voltage drop, you should always buy sufficient wire size so that the voltage does not drop below 85 percent of its nominal value.(NEC says 80% due to power surges.)

Another way to avoid voltage drop is by using as much No. 12 AWG copper wire as you can afford, because it has very little resistance per foot in comparison with many other lower gauge wires."

NEC just came out with rules on FORD EV trucks and cars. Got it!

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Feb 21, 2023

#15

Here is a video about connectors scot held up 30A on 22 gauge wire. (red connectorrs)

Here is another chart specifically on automobile wiring size almost same as other charts.

Why is the size of an automotive wire so important? When electricity passes through a wire, The wire resists the electricity and some of it is converted into heat that is absorbed by the wire. This lost energy is realized in the form of a voltage drop at the end of the wire. In its simplest terms, you can think of 12 Volts as during 12 units of work. If you're wire has a 2% voltage drop, then the wire is using up 0.24 volts, or units of work. That leaves 11.76 volts, or units of work left. So if you put a volt meter on your battery and read 12 volts, when you put your volt meter on the end of the wire, you will read 11.76 volts. If you are running 20 amps through your wire then your wire is absorbing 4.8 watts of power. Now let's say your wire has a 20% voltage drop. The voltage reading on your volt meter at the end of the wire will only be 9.6 volts, and the wire is absorbing a whopping 48 watts of power!

Auxiliary switch one is 30 Amps.

Automotive Wire Recommended Amperage Capacity Chart - 2% Voltage Drop- Recommended Length and Amperage for Automotive Wire while maintaining a 2% or less voltage drop at 12 volts
Automotive Wire Amps Size 5A 10 A 15 A 20 A 25 A 30 A. 20 Gauge Wire (AWG) 4.5 ft 2.2 ft 1.6 ft . 18 Gauge Wire (AWG) 7.3 ft 3.7 ft 2.4 ft 1.8 ft 16 Gauge Wire (AWG) 11.5 ft 5.8 ft 3.8 ft 2.9 ft 2.3 ft 1.9 ft. 14 Gauge Wire (AWG) 18.4 ft 9.2 ft 6.1 ft 4.6 ft 3.7 ft 3.1 ft. 12 Gauge Wire (AWG) 29.4 ft 14.7 ft 9.8 ft 7.4 ft 5.9 ft 4.9 ft. 10 Gauge Wire (AWG) 46.8 ft 23.4 ft 15.6 ft 11.7 ft 9.4 ft 7.8 ft. 8 Gauge Wire (AWG) 74.4 ft 37.2 ft 24.8 ft 18.6 ft 14.9 ft 12.4 ft

Feb 21, 2023

#16

I need some Excedrin

2023 Bronco,Black Diamond 🏴‍☠️ Velocity Blue 🟦, 4Door, SAS, MIC, Mid, 2.7m, Orig Order: 9/10/21 Blend Date: 11/30/22. Built: 12/02, Shipped 12/4, Arrived at dealer on 12/23, Took possession on 12/30/22!!! 476 Days after ordering.
Goodyear, AZ 🌵🔆

Ditchrunner

Feb 21, 2023

#17

BroncoFred
I need some Excedrin

And xanax.

Black Diamond/4-door/mid pkg/2.7/MIC/rack/towing/Eruption Green/res 7.13.20/ord 2.8.21, then 10.15.21/built 1.21.22/delivered 4.15.22
Gunstock Off-Roadeo 10/29/22/Steel and Stirrups Traveling Lamp holder 9.23
Gaia GPS

BroncoFred

Feb 21, 2023

#18

Watched the video. The crappy knock off Chinese connectors, that I have never seen, melted under slightly more than normal use. And the more common connectors under a much higher load than rated along with the wire that was way to small and over rated both survived under a much heavier 30 amp load. So as long as we aren’t massively overloading the system it looks like we are all good to go! So play it safe people and please follow directions! Oh and get UL listed!

Deano Bronc, Ditchrunner

Feb 22, 2023

#19

TK1215
Watched the video. The crappy knock off Chinese connectors, that I have never seen, melted under slightly more than normal use. And the more common connectors under a much higher load than rated along with the wire that was way to small and over rated both survived under a much heavier 30 amp load. So as long as we aren’t massively overloading the system it looks like we are all good to go! So play it safe people and please follow directions! Oh and get UL listed!

The best connection method is to solder.
No high resistance, strong mechanical strength, and prevents future circuit problems.
Take the time to do it right from the start.

Deano Bronc

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