Has Hi-Tech Gone Too Far for Off-Road?

Soupcook
Aug 07, 2021

Rank VI

Aug 07, 2021

I have nearly 30 years managing industrial plant maintenance and reliability. My maintenance techs were mostly mechanics and over time industrial controls folks became more and more critical as automation and controls were improved. The single biggest labor challenge I faced was hiring qualified controls techs, training controls techs and keeping controls techs. The modern mechanic has to carry a laptop computer and be able to read code, understand all types of sensors, understand feedback systems, and remain current on the updated programs or even learn new programs quickly.

Today's Bronco (as well as other new vehicles) is loaded with sensors, feedback systems and programs. I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions on how to troubleshoot trailer wiring...tips, tricks, ground issues, etc. Where are all the qualified technicians going to come from and how much do we want to spend on Bronco maintenance? Besides the technicians, there is all the new test equipment required to troubleshoot and repair the vehicle. Hourly rates for industrial controls technicians can exceed $40/hr. Will the dealerships pay that to keep qualified techs happy?

I can't wait to take my Bronco out but at the same time I worry a wire will shake loose somewhere and the entire vehicle becomes a rock.

All this came to mind as a read an article yesterday about the annual maintenance costs for EVs. For the first couple of years, the cost exceeds internal combustion engine vehicles (although the first year maintenance may be covered by the manufacturer). It's all crazy.

The days when I could sit on the wheel well of my pick-up truck, adjust the carburetor, change the points, etc., are long gone as well as my ability to troubleshoot, diagnose and repair my Bronco (whenever I get it).

Here is a quote from Zip Recruiter: "While ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $129,500 and as low as $19,500, the majority of Electric Vehicle Technician salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $64,500 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $106,500 annually across the United States."
7/14: Outer Banks, Eruption Green, Lux Package, 2.7 Eco, Sasquatch Package, Roof Rack, Towing Package, HD Modular front bumper, AUX switches
Shadowblade, Mountainwiitch
Last edited by a moderator: Aug 07, 2021
Moderator

Life is a Highway

Aug 07, 2021

#1
I have nearly 30 years managing industrial plant maintenance and reliability. My maintenance techs were mostly mechanics and over time industrial controls folks became more and more critical as automation and controls were improved. The single biggest labor challenge I faced was hiring qualified controls techs, training controls techs and keeping controls techs. The modern mechanic has to carry a laptop computer and be able to read code, understand all types of sensors, understand feedback systems, and remain current on the updated programs or even learn new programs quickly.

Today's Bronco (as well as other new vehicles) is loaded with sensors, feedback systems and programs. I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions on how to troubleshoot trailer wiring...tips, tricks, ground issues, etc. Where are all the qualified technicians going to come from and how much do we want to spend on Bronco maintenance? Besides the technicians, there is all the new test equipment required to troubleshoot and repair the vehicle. Hourly rates for industrial controls technicians can exceed $40/hr. Will the dealerships pay that to keep qualified techs happy?

I can't wait to take my Bronco out but at the same time I worry a wire will shake loose somewhere and the entire vehicle becomes a rock.

All this came to mind as a read an article yesterday about the annual maintenance costs for EVs. For the first couple of years, the cost exceeds internal combustion engine vehicles (although the first year maintenance may be covered by the manufacturer). It's all crazy.

The days when I could sit on the wheel well of my pick-up truck, adjust the carburetor, change the points, etc., are long gone as well as my ability to troubleshoot, diagnose and repair my Bronco (whenever I get it).

Here is a quote from Zip Recruiter: "While ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $129,500 and as low as $19,500, the majority of Electric Vehicle Technician salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $64,500 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $106,500 annually across the United States."
I too fondly remember the days of being inside of the engine compartment and wrenching
Soupcook, Rydfree

Rank V

Aug 07, 2021

#2
I think of this every time I see GOAT modes mentioned. 2H-4H-4L and lockers engaged or disengaged, that’s all you need. Everything else is bells & whistles.
Mountainwiitch, Speed Devil

Don't Follow Me ,I'm about to do something Stupid

Aug 07, 2021

#3
I too fondly remember the days of being inside of the engine compartment and wrenching

So do I . I also remember having to do so quite often . Points , plugs , plug wires , rotor caps , V-belts , mushy water hoses and engines that were worn out by 50,000 miles . I'll take the high tech :)
2Dr Badlands - MIC - Area51 - 2.7 Auto - MGV - Headliner - High Pkg
Reserved 7/20/20 Delivered 5/6/23
"Ford said, hey we're gonna fulfill all reservations and pre-orders before we build stock units."
Bike007b, Deano Bronc

Rank V

Aug 07, 2021

#4
I liken all the Bronco computer controlled features to the fly-by-wire of Airbus, vs Boeing airplanes which give pilots direct controls and feedback. Many early Airbus accidents were caused by pilots not understanding what the computer was doing, or them fighting the computer. Same with the 737-Max problems 2-3 years ago, you have a computer application trying to fly the airplane based on ITS judgement, not yours. When I discovered the Bronco I was hooked on it's looks and the manual transmission. All the cameras, "trail assist, auto hairpin turn, shift point & throttle point optimization" features that are based on a computer algorithm are just things to break, go wrong, or be something you fight with. Stranded on the side of the road because a computer decides it is in an "unsafe" mode (hood interlock falsely showing an open condition, GOAT mode discombobulated....) is not a "fun off road adventure." It's a critical situation at times. So I ordered a plain jane Bronco, low trim package, manual transmission. I wish it didn't have a turbo.
Thane, 14U
Moderator

Life is a Highway

Aug 08, 2021

#5
So do I . I also remember having to do so quite often . Points , plugs , plug wires , rotor caps , V-belts , mushy water hoses and engines that were worn out by 50,000 miles . I'll take the high tech :)
Don’t forget condensers
14U, Deano Bronc
Moderator

RedNexican X Apalacian American: Goofyness!

Aug 08, 2021

#6
1972: Apollo-Guidance-Computer-628x430.jpg


2020: SpaceX-Crew-Dragon-interior-16x9-1.jpg

Not all tech is "bad".

L.R.
Shadowblade, TK1215

Your unofficial Favorite Author

Aug 08, 2021

#7
I think of this every time I see GOAT modes mentioned. 2H-4H-4L and lockers engaged or disengaged, that’s all you need. Everything else is bells & whistles.

also dont need the digital gauges, keep shit simple with analog. We’ll take care of it in due time
2dr Badlands 2.3 Manual w/Mid, Rapid Red
My blog, Mfcomics.net, my stories: https://payhip.com/MFComics
14U, Bronco V-8

Rank VI

Aug 08, 2021

#8
I am equally afraid of all that tech, all the buttons on the steering wheel, menus, digital displays, everything on that big touch screen, and not a fan of turbo's. Still might give up on getting a new Bronco.
Bronco V-8, Soupcook

Home, home on the range

Aug 08, 2021

#9
Some of the tech is ok. I don't mind having a touch screen and Bluetooth, but agree on the analog gages and some of the other things that could prevent my rig from running if they don't work. I didn't add any packages to my build and still think they put too much extra in. I guess we'll see how everything holds up a year or 2 down the road. I would've liked a NA engine but am happy Bronco is back.
2022 Bronco Black Diamond 2dr 2.3L manual Hot Pepper Red. Reserved 8/7/20. Ordered 1/23/21. Reordered 10/08/21. Scheduled week of January 24th 2022, delivered 2/24/2022
Shadowblade, TK1215

Rank VI

Aug 08, 2021

#10
I liken all the Bronco computer controlled features to the fly-by-wire of Airbus, vs Boeing airplanes which give pilots direct controls and feedback. Many early Airbus accidents were caused by pilots not understanding what the computer was doing, or them fighting the computer. Same with the 737-Max problems 2-3 years ago, you have a computer application trying to fly the airplane based on ITS judgement, not yours. When I discovered the Bronco I was hooked on it's looks and the manual transmission. All the cameras, "trail assist, auto hairpin turn, shift point & throttle point optimization" features that are based on a computer algorithm are just things to break, go wrong, or be something you fight with. Stranded on the side of the road because a computer decides it is in an "unsafe" mode (hood interlock falsely showing an open condition, GOAT mode discombobulated....) is not a "fun off road adventure." It's a critical situation at times. So I ordered a plain jane Bronco, low trim package, manual transmission. I wish it didn't have a turbo.
I hear you. I have great memories of my 1977 Jeep CJ7. It had a soft top, stick shift, steel floors and a plain V-8 engine. I could wrench my way through just about any situation. And because I did the maintenance, I built confidence in its reliability. But, I'm also a big fan of a padded dash, modern safety features and GPS.
7/14: Outer Banks, Eruption Green, Lux Package, 2.7 Eco, Sasquatch Package, Roof Rack, Towing Package, HD Modular front bumper, AUX switches
Mountainwiitch, TK1215

Rank V

Aug 08, 2021

#11
I remember working on flathead ford V-8's. Very easy to pull out and put back under a maple tree in our yard!
4 Door Badlands: Carbonized Gray, 2.7 Eco, Sasquatch Package, Towing Package, 35" Tires ETC
Mountainwiitch, SlashRacer

Rank VI

Aug 08, 2021

#12
I liken all the Bronco computer controlled features to the fly-by-wire of Airbus, vs Boeing airplanes which give pilots direct controls and feedback. Many early Airbus accidents were caused by pilots not understanding what the computer was doing, or them fighting the computer. Same with the 737-Max problems 2-3 years ago, you have a computer application trying to fly the airplane based on ITS judgement, not yours. When I discovered the Bronco I was hooked on it's looks and the manual transmission. All the cameras, "trail assist, auto hairpin turn, shift point & throttle point optimization" features that are based on a computer algorithm are just things to break, go wrong, or be something you fight with. Stranded on the side of the road because a computer decides it is in an "unsafe" mode (hood interlock falsely showing an open condition, GOAT mode discombobulated....) is not a "fun off road adventure." It's a critical situation at times. So I ordered a plain jane Bronco, low trim package, manual transmission. I wish it didn't have a turbo.
Ahh airbus, the yugo of aviation. Many children have been put through college by the overtime generated by that piece of crap. If it’s not Boeing I’m not going!
Soupcook, TK1215

Mud,Sweat and Gears

Aug 08, 2021

#13
Some of the tech is ok. I don't mind having a touch screen and Bluetooth, but agree on the analog gages and some of the other things that could prevent my rig from running if they don't work. I didn't add any packages to my build and still think they put too much extra in. I guess we'll see how everything holds up a year or 2 down the road. I would've liked a NA engine but am happy Bronco is back.

I don't like the touch screen, if you don't pay ransom, it doesn't do anything. I suppose it you take it out the Bronco won't run?
If it doesn't have a function it shouldn't be in vehicle.Like the rear seats, there should be a delete CREDIT for not putting them in.

Rank V

Aug 08, 2021

#14
I don't like the touch screen, if you don't pay ransom, it doesn't do anything. I suppose it you take it out the Bronco won't run?
If it doesn't have a function it shouldn't be in vehicle.Like the rear seats, there should be a delete CREDIT for not putting them in.
The screen is federally mandated, along with thousands of dollars of other "options" and goodies you are forced to buy thanks to federal law. Next is a breathalyzer the fed mandates you pay for in every new car starting in 3 years unless something changes with the new "infrastructure" bill. Sounds like a noble cause, but you're forced to pay an extra thousand for another ignition interlock where failure of the chip leaves you stranded with no way out. Don't like being forced to pay many thousands extra for tech you don't want? Write your congressman. Today. Because they're at it again, and you're gonna pay.
7/14/20 Res, took delivery 4/7/22!!
A51 2 door Badlands, 2.7L, Sasquatch, Lux, MGV, MIC, Roof Rails, Tow
The Bronze, Deano Bronc

Your unofficial Favorite Author

Aug 08, 2021

#15
In the future, theyll have ways to take us back to analog and simple shit and we’ll gladly pay for it
2dr Badlands 2.3 Manual w/Mid, Rapid Red
My blog, Mfcomics.net, my stories: https://payhip.com/MFComics
14U, Soupcook

Rank VI

Aug 08, 2021

#16
All the more reason to just keep my 2015 Rubicon.
BuzzyBud

Mud,Sweat and Gears

Aug 09, 2021

#17
All the more reason to just keep my 2015 Rubicon.
I have to say Jeeps instrument cluster look better.
14U, KennyMac

Rank IV

Aug 09, 2021

#18
I have nearly 30 years managing industrial plant maintenance and reliability. My maintenance techs were mostly mechanics and over time industrial controls folks became more and more critical as automation and controls were improved. The single biggest labor challenge I faced was hiring qualified controls techs, training controls techs and keeping controls techs. The modern mechanic has to carry a laptop computer and be able to read code, understand all types of sensors, understand feedback systems, and remain current on the updated programs or even learn new programs quickly.

Today's Bronco (as well as other new vehicles) is loaded with sensors, feedback systems and programs. I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions on how to troubleshoot trailer wiring...tips, tricks, ground issues, etc. Where are all the qualified technicians going to come from and how much do we want to spend on Bronco maintenance? Besides the technicians, there is all the new test equipment required to troubleshoot and repair the vehicle. Hourly rates for industrial controls technicians can exceed $40/hr. Will the dealerships pay that to keep qualified techs happy?

I can't wait to take my Bronco out but at the same time I worry a wire will shake loose somewhere and the entire vehicle becomes a rock.

All this came to mind as a read an article yesterday about the annual maintenance costs for EVs. For the first couple of years, the cost exceeds internal combustion engine vehicles (although the first year maintenance may be covered by the manufacturer). It's all crazy.

The days when I could sit on the wheel well of my pick-up truck, adjust the carburetor, change the points, etc., are long gone as well as my ability to troubleshoot, diagnose and repair my Bronco (whenever I get it).

Here is a quote from Zip Recruiter: "While ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $129,500 and as low as $19,500, the majority of Electric Vehicle Technician salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $64,500 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $106,500 annually across the United States."
I have nearly 30 years managing industrial plant maintenance and reliability. My maintenance techs were mostly mechanics and over time industrial controls folks became more and more critical as automation and controls were improved. The single biggest labor challenge I faced was hiring qualified controls techs, training controls techs and keeping controls techs. The modern mechanic has to carry a laptop computer and be able to read code, understand all types of sensors, understand feedback systems, and remain current on the updated programs or even learn new programs quickly.

Today's Bronco (as well as other new vehicles) is loaded with sensors, feedback systems and programs. I can't tell you how many times I've seen discussions on how to troubleshoot trailer wiring...tips, tricks, ground issues, etc. Where are all the qualified technicians going to come from and how much do we want to spend on Bronco maintenance? Besides the technicians, there is all the new test equipment required to troubleshoot and repair the vehicle. Hourly rates for industrial controls technicians can exceed $40/hr. Will the dealerships pay that to keep qualified techs happy?

I can't wait to take my Bronco out but at the same time I worry a wire will shake loose somewhere and the entire vehicle becomes a rock.

All this came to mind as a read an article yesterday about the annual maintenance costs for EVs. For the first couple of years, the cost exceeds internal combustion engine vehicles (although the first year maintenance may be covered by the manufacturer). It's all crazy.

The days when I could sit on the wheel well of my pick-up truck, adjust the carburetor, change the points, etc., are long gone as well as my ability to troubleshoot, diagnose and repair my Bronco (whenever I get it).

Here is a quote from Zip Recruiter: "While ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $129,500 and as low as $19,500, the majority of Electric Vehicle Technician salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $64,500 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $106,500 annually across the United States."
I wish we could still buy tech free vehicles, but the Luddites lost that battle. I’m interested to see how that touchscreen holds up to high temps with the roof off. The screen in my wife’s 2019 Odyssey freezes up when it gets into the high 90’s.
Soupcook

Rank V

Aug 09, 2021

#19
I don't like the touch screen, if you don't pay ransom, it doesn't do anything. I suppose it you take it out the Bronco won't run?
If it doesn't have a function it shouldn't be in vehicle.Like the rear seats, there should be a delete CREDIT for not putting them in.
Agree! My back seats are going into storage as soon as my Bronco comes home to me.
4 Door Badlands: Carbonized Gray, 2.7 Eco, Sasquatch Package, Towing Package, 35" Tires ETC
Buckin Bronco, 14U

You must log in or register to post here.