Ford says the 10R60 transmission is plenty robust for Bronco

Laura
Jul 14, 2021
Moderator Staff member

Administrator

Jul 14, 2021

originally posted: https://thebronconation.com/ford-the-10r60-transmission-plenty-robust-for-bronco/


Bronco_transmission-header.jpg


By Andrew Murphy


Ford has confirmed a leak from last month that the transmission in the 2021 Bronco is the 10R60, not the 10R80 that many believed was the choice for the all-new Bronco.

While some Bronco fans and enthusiasts have posted in forums that the 10R60, the same transmission in the Explorer, may not be adequate, Ford officials have told Bronco Nation that there should be no concerns.

Many fans had anticipated that the new Bronco, which will begin deliveries later this month, would carry the 10R80, the same transmission that is in the Ranger, which is built in Wayne Assembly on the same line as the Bronco. Too, the Bronco is built on the same platform as the Ranger.

However, the reasoning behind Ford’s choice to use the 10R60 rather than the 10R80 seems solid. Firstly, the Ranger is equipped with the 10R80 solely because the 10R60 did not exist in its current state back when the Ranger was in development. While the 10R80 may have some advantages in certain applications over the 10R60, the Ranger was not equipped with the 10R80 due to its more robust design. Rather, Ford used it because it managed to meet the towing, payload, and GVWR of the Ranger during development.

Secondly, the 10R60 is a newer, more efficient transmission that is perfectly at home with either of the Bronco’s engines. Bronco Brand Manager Esteban Plaza-Jennings told BN that the 10R60 is more than capable of handling the Bronco’s power output, as the trans is rated at 406lb-ft with the 2.3L engine and 424lb-ft with the 2.7L engine. For reference, the 2.3L engine is projected to produce 310lb-ft of torque, while the 2.7L will produce 400lb-ft.

The 10R60 is also 29lbs lighter than the 10R80, which has reduced parasitic losses and a lower internal mass provides a more efficient transmission.

Ford also raced a stock Bronco, equipped with a 2.7L engine and the 10R60 trans, in the NORRA Mexican 1000 rally where it finished a respectable third place.

“Baja mode was especially helpful in this terrain,” says Bronco Engineering Manager Jamie Groves. “It keeps shift points at just the right RPM to keep the turbos spooled up, so power is there when you need it, and brakes are more aggressive to slow quickly for rough terrain.”

All in all, Ford looks to have made a thoroughly researched decision regarding the Bronco’s automatic transmission choice, with no loss of capacity for the Bronco’s towing and payload numbers.

Shifting Bronco

Let’s take a look at Bronco’s new manual transmission, something which enthusiasts have been very excited to test out.

Pre-orders on the Bronco show an 18% take rate on the seven-speed manual transmission. Plaza-Jennings believes the take rate will settle in a little lower than that over the course of a few years of production since the hardcore Bronco fans and stick-shifters will have accounted for a large number of pre-orders. The unique Getrag seven-speed manual transmission can only be paired with the smaller 2.3L engine. The inclusion of a manual option for the Bronco makes it one of just three vehicles that Ford currently offers with a stick –– the other two being Mustangs.

For comparison, the take-rate for manual transmissions on the Jeep Wrangler has been about 30%-35%.

Although it’s marketed as a seven speed, it’s fair to say that the new MT88 transmission is really a six speed with an additional crawler gear. The seventh gear is responsible for the dogleg shift pattern of the MT88 where it’s located down and all the way to the left. Rock crawling fans will appreciate the addition, which Ford lists as having a 6.588:1 gear ratio.

About 60% of Bronco customers who have pre-ordered opted for the 2.7L engine rather than the smaller 2.3L, meaning that the majority of buyers forgo the manual option in favor of the increased power from the 2.7L. This data suggests that around half of the 2.3L Broncos will be stick shift.

Bronco Sport owners don’t have quite as many choices when it comes to transmissions, as Ford only offers a single eight speed SelectShift automatic transmission for the Sport. However, Sport owners who spring for the larger 2.0L engine have the option to add paddle shifters to their build.

Andrew Murphy lives in Richmond, Virginia, and works in auto industry marketing and social media. He also wrenches on his cars, including a Jeep Wrangler until he can take delivery on a new Ford Bronco.
2021 Oxford White 2-door non-Sas Mid package 2.7L/10-speed Badlands with MIC top
2021 Carbonized Gray 2-door Sas High package 2.7L/10-speed Badlands with MIC top
Keeping the Jeeps: stock '89 XJ and 3.5" lifted '00 XJ on 31s
joshyboy691, Mountainwiitch
Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2021

Rank Benevolent Dictator

Jul 14, 2021

#1
I believe that if Ford offered the 2.7 with a stick, that the numbers would much more closely match the Jeep Wrangler MT percentages. I ordered the 2.3 MT, but definitely would have preferred the 2.7 with an MT.
stuckinohio, Micahman

Rank VI

Jul 14, 2021

#2
I agree. 50% of those that ordered a 2.3L opted for the manual. They ordered the 2.3L because they couldn't get the manual with the larger engine.
2022 Jeep JLR, manual with even more extra guacamole
Sold - 2021 Jeep JLR, manual w/extra guacamole
Micahman, the poacher

Rank V

Jul 15, 2021

#3
I believe that if Ford offered the 2.7 with a stick, that the numbers would much more closely match the Jeep Wrangler MT percentages. I ordered the 2.3 MT, but definitely would have preferred the 2.7 with an MT.




Don't forget us troglodytes waiting patiently for a manual V8 Bronco.
Sdakotabronco, Bronco_Girl

Wank ER

Jul 15, 2021

#4
DAMN STRAIGHT!
1626390149331.png
2021 FE Cactus Grey
Deano Bronc, Sdakotabronco

Rank VI

Jul 15, 2021

#5
"Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting." - Farley
2022 Jeep JLR, manual with even more extra guacamole
Sold - 2021 Jeep JLR, manual w/extra guacamole
tlowell01, Deano Bronc

Rank V

Jul 16, 2021

#6
"Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting." - Farley
Well that depends... what's in the box?

Bronco_Girl, tlowell01

Rank VI

Jul 16, 2021

#7
Really they had to shave the 29 lbs to keep the spare tire.
AcesandEights, TK1215

Rank V

Jul 18, 2021

#8
2.3L with manual might be the best choice if you want any sort of payload.

Mud,Sweat and Gears

Jul 18, 2021

#9
I agree. 50% of those that ordered a 2.3L opted for the manual. They ordered the 2.3L because they couldn't get the manual with the larger engine.
If they offered a V-8 with a manual they would out sell any other combo.
JakeMangan, Bronco_Girl

Rank V

Jul 19, 2021

#10
I believe that if Ford offered the 2.7 with a stick, that the numbers would much more closely match the Jeep Wrangler MT percentages. I ordered the 2.3 MT, but definitely would have preferred the 2.7 with an MT.

The take rate on the JL manual is actually pretty low. They recalled 40,000 JL's out of 600,000+ produced, so not even a 10% take rate. Manuals are just a tough sell at this point!

Rank III

Jul 19, 2021

#11
I think Ford just out of the gate with the Bronco is doing pretty good. They always been state of the art with product. Stay tuned for a heavier towing capacity in the future and transmissions as well as a hybrid w 400hp maybe by 2023. So, my thought is get what u can enjoy now and save for the future. Happy Trailing!
Bronco_Girl, Bronc96

Rank VI

Jul 19, 2021

#12
The take rate on the JL manual is actually pretty low. They recalled 40,000 JL's out of 600,000+ produced, so not even a 10% take rate. Manuals are just a tough sell at this point!

Just a theory, but I think part of that has to do with how orders are placed through the dealerships, in combination with how many manuals Stellantis expects to sell. Dealerships spec vehicles the way they want to sell them, not necessarily how people want to buy them. Don't get me wrong, the dealer doesn't want to sit on something they can't sell, but they spec their vehicles to be profitable. They spec them with the bells and whistles to maximize profit. There is overlap with what the customer wants, but it is pretty easy to upsell the customer when it's only another $17/month for a $500 option. Add a couple of those and the customer doesn't care over 72 or 84 months.

I think the dealerships are spec'ing their vehicles with the bells and whistles, and the auto transmission, because they are more profitable for the dealership and the mothership. If the dealerships upped the number of vehicles they ordered with a manual to 12% instead of 10%, I think the take-rate would be 12% instead of 10%, meaning they'd sell them all. But the manual transmission is "free". Of course there would be a point where they had manuals sitting on the lot, but I bet the take rate would be at least slightly higher than what we see in sales now.

As an example, I asked my salesman a question about the soft top on my Rubicon and although he'd worked for the dealership for 22 years, it was the first soft top he's sold since before 2018 when they changed the body style. His dealership only orders hard tops. Soft tops are basically only for customer orders. He couldn't remember ever ordering a 2-door, Rubicon, with soft top and manual transmission in 22 years. I think they'd sell them that way, but there isn't as much profit in a stripped Rubicon. That's my $0.02.

I do think Ford mated the right transmission to the vehicle, but if they didn't, they'll know pretty quick.
2022 Jeep JLR, manual with even more extra guacamole
Sold - 2021 Jeep JLR, manual w/extra guacamole
Bronc96, Bronco V-8

Mud,Sweat and Gears

Jul 19, 2021

#13
Just a theory, but I think part of that has to do with how orders are placed through the dealerships, in combination with how many manuals Stellantis expects to sell. Dealerships spec vehicles the way they want to sell them, not necessarily how people want to buy them. Don't get me wrong, the dealer doesn't want to sit on something they can't sell, but they spec their vehicles to be profitable. They spec them with the bells and whistles to maximize profit. There is overlap with what the customer wants, but it is pretty easy to upsell the customer when it's only another $17/month for a $500 option. Add a couple of those and the customer doesn't care over 72 or 84 months.

I think the dealerships are spec'ing their vehicles with the bells and whistles, and the auto transmission, because they are more profitable for the dealership and the mothership. If the dealerships upped the number of vehicles they ordered with a manual to 12% instead of 10%, I think the take-rate would be 12% instead of 10%, meaning they'd sell them all. But the manual transmission is "free". Of course there would be a point where they had manuals sitting on the lot, but I bet the take rate would be at least slightly higher than what we see in sales now.

As an example, I asked my salesman a question about the soft top on my Rubicon and although he'd worked for the dealership for 22 years, it was the first soft top he's sold since before 2018 when they changed the body style. His dealership only orders hard tops. Soft tops are basically only for customer orders. He couldn't remember ever ordering a 2-door, Rubicon, with soft top and manual transmission in 22 years. I think they'd sell them that way, but there isn't as much profit in a stripped Rubicon. That's my $0.02.

I do think Ford mated the right transmission to the vehicle, but if they didn't, they'll know pretty quick.

The dealers I've been trying to deal with, are treating the Bronco like any other mall crawler Ford sells.Neither one wants a manual on the lot and they don't want to order any, reservations included.Their paranoia about getting "stuck" with a manual is unfounded. The big issue is the 2.3 doesn't have the bottom end to handle big tires even with gears. The 4.7s aren't available with anything but the 35" tires on the Sasquatch, you need the 4.7s with the 32" tires. The base probably will offer the best performance with the 30" tires and the 4.46 gears.
JFord

Rank V

Jul 19, 2021

#14
As soon as you tune either engine it will far exceed the transmission ratings. What does the official Ford tune give you for hp/torque ratings? :oops:
Bronco_Girl

Mud,Sweat and Gears

Jul 19, 2021

#15
The official tune gives you another 50 lbsft
As soon as you tune either engine it will far exceed the transmission ratings. What does the official Ford tune give you for hp/torque ratings? :oops:

The Ranger tune:

" the 2.3-liter Ecoboost engine gets a 45-horsepower boost at 4500 rpm, and a 60 lb-ft of torque increase at 2500 rpm. It's worth noting the engine makes peak horsepower and torque at slightly higher rpms (5500 and 3000, respectively). A Ford representative told Road & Track the tune increases peak output to 320 horsepower and 355 lb-ft of torque total."
Moderator

Life is a Highway

Jul 20, 2021

#16
Just a theory, but I think part of that has to do with how orders are placed through the dealerships, in combination with how many manuals Stellantis expects to sell. Dealerships spec vehicles the way they want to sell them, not necessarily how people want to buy them. Don't get me wrong, the dealer doesn't want to sit on something they can't sell, but they spec their vehicles to be profitable. They spec them with the bells and whistles to maximize profit. There is overlap with what the customer wants, but it is pretty easy to upsell the customer when it's only another $17/month for a $500 option. Add a couple of those and the customer doesn't care over 72 or 84 months.

I think the dealerships are spec'ing their vehicles with the bells and whistles, and the auto transmission, because they are more profitable for the dealership and the mothership. If the dealerships upped the number of vehicles they ordered with a manual to 12% instead of 10%, I think the take-rate would be 12% instead of 10%, meaning they'd sell them all. But the manual transmission is "free". Of course there would be a point where they had manuals sitting on the lot, but I bet the take rate would be at least slightly higher than what we see in sales now.

As an example, I asked my salesman a question about the soft top on my Rubicon and although he'd worked for the dealership for 22 years, it was the first soft top he's sold since before 2018 when they changed the body style. His dealership only orders hard tops. Soft tops are basically only for customer orders. He couldn't remember ever ordering a 2-door, Rubicon, with soft top and manual transmission in 22 years. I think they'd sell them that way, but there isn't as much profit in a stripped Rubicon. That's my $0.02.

I do think Ford mated the right transmission to the vehicle, but if they didn't, they'll know pretty quick.
All valid points, but how many dealer orders for the lot are they actually getting?

Rank VI

Jul 20, 2021

#17
I was replying to someone talking about Jeep and almost all of them are dealer orders for the lot. Many more people buy off the lot than order. Same.with other brands, but since the Bronco was a reservation vehicle the early ones are mannequins and customer orders.
2022 Jeep JLR, manual with even more extra guacamole
Sold - 2021 Jeep JLR, manual w/extra guacamole

Rank V

Jul 20, 2021

#18
The official tune gives you another 50 lbsft


The Ranger tune:

" the 2.3-liter Ecoboost engine gets a 45-horsepower boost at 4500 rpm, and a 60 lb-ft of torque increase at 2500 rpm. It's worth noting the engine makes peak horsepower and torque at slightly higher rpms (5500 and 3000, respectively). A Ford representative told Road & Track the tune increases peak output to 320 horsepower and 355 lb-ft of torque total."

Safe on the 2.3 but what about the 2.7?
KennyMac

Rank V

Jul 20, 2021

#19
Safe on the 2.3 but what about the 2.7?
Well, if I'm catching the details right here, there's a Ford approved tune for the 2.3 that puts output in the range of the stock 2.7. So if the manual is ok behind a tuned 4 cylinder, why can't it be ok behind an equally powered stock 6 cylinder? Then we could tune at our own risk, but have a bad mother of a ride with a stick...
7/14/20 Res, took delivery 4/7/22!!
A51 2 door Badlands, 2.7L, Sasquatch, Lux, MGV, MIC, Roof Rails, Tow
AcesandEights

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